Should I manage my own 401(k)?

neari

New member
I’m closing in on $100K in my 401(k) at 30yo. I’ve been contributing for 4 years. My entire 401(k) is currently invested in the Vanguard Target 2060 Fund. I was considering splitting my future contributions between this fund and an S&P 500 Index fund. Thoughts? I’m open to suggestions of other changes I can make.
 
@nidge This. I was doing a fund like you have been in but there is too much you aren’t making with that approach for now. When you get closer to retirement, a date fund makes sense. For now with many working years please do sp500. You will do so much better. I did 4 years ago and doubled my money already.
 
@hsong Isn't a targeted date fund supposed to be rebalancing your account automatically to do exactly this? More stocks and risk early, more bonds and stability later?
 
@catcher2000 Yes. That is correct however if you look at the allocation, it isn’t all stocks even when you have 36 years until retirement. That was my mistake and why I made less in the timed plan and have moved to all SP500.
 
@catcher2000 the question is why are you holding any bonds at this point? they're 30. that means they have roughly a 4 decade investing horizon starting with $100k. Any "risk" is completely negated by the enormous length of time they're going to be holding these investments.

imagine being scared about investing from the 1981 crash and shying away from stocks. in the last 40 years the market has returned 11.5% with dividends reinvested. that return on $100k investment without ever contributing another cent would be almost 8 million dollars. If they had a recurring $325/month contribution that they increased 1% every year over those 40 years, their account would be worth $10M.

you can even apply that logic to the dot com bubble, or the housing crisis, or the pandemic. those were all erased in a blip on their investment timeline. it's not worth considering.

they shouldn't even think about buying a bond for 30yrs. and honestly with $100k already, they can plan to never sell their stocks and live off the dividends in retirement, rather than drawing from the principal or losing growth potential by transitioning to bonds.

A high dividend mutual fund paying 4% on a $10M portfolio (which could be much higher if they saved aggressively), would be $400k pre-tax, which would be the equivalent of $135k annually based on the last 40 year's cumulative inflation rate of 197%.
 
@neari
  1. Most people can easily manage their own 401K.
  2. I wrote the following comparing TDFs to a US total market stock fund. Everything in it applies to comparing TDFs to an S&P 500 fund except that an S&P 500 fund has even less diversity than a US total market fund, so it's even less suitable to be the only thing in a retirement portfolio.
  3. A lot of people have claimed that TDFs are too conservative for a young investor. I disagree, though it does depend on the fund & the investor. Bonds account for very little of the difference in performance between an all-US-stock portfolio & many TDFs designed for young investors.
Bonds have had little impact on the performance of these performance TDFs; it's mostly been the international stocks. Adding international stocks doesn't make a fund more conservative. Historically, US stocks & international stocks have taken turns outperforming each other. US stocks have dominated recently, but that tide could turn at any time.

I'm most familiar with Vanguard's TDFs, so I'll use them as an example. I've never invested in one, but they're a great choice for a lot of investors who value convenience & are willing to pay a little bit for it.

Vanguard TDFs start out with a 90/10 stock/bond allocation & stick with that for many years before starting to gradually shift more towards bonds twenty-five years before the target date.

The difference in performance between a 90/10 portfolio & a 100/0 portfolio is usually pretty small, but the difference in risk is usually much larger. This makes it much easier for an investor to hold onto the TDF through a bear market instead of selling in a panic, a move that would cost much more than the performance difference.

For a US-only portfolio, over the last 30+ years, the performance difference has been less than 0.4% CAGR. However, the risk (standard deviation) difference has been about 1.5%. (I expect longer time periods would show similar results.) 22 years into this comparison, the 90/10 portfolio was slightly ahead. Only the longest bull market in US history created much of a gap.

Why then, you may ask, have funds like Vanguard Total Stock Market Fund (VTSAX & VTI) beaten Vanguard's TDFs by such a large margin recently? The answer is not bonds; it's international stocks.

So, pick an all-US-stock portfolio (total market or S&P 500) over a TDF if you like. But please understand that the TDF is only slightly more conservative & has its own advantages. Of course, past performance is not an indicator of future results.

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-asset-class-allocation?s=y&mode=1&timePeriod=2&startYear=1972&firstMonth=1&endYear=2023&lastMonth=12&calendarAligned=true&includeYTD=false&initialAmount=10000&annualOperation=0&annualAdjustment=0&inflationAdjusted=true&annualPercentage=0.0&frequency=4&rebalanceType=1&absoluteDeviation=5.0&relativeDeviation=25.0&portfolioNames=false&portfolioName1=Portfolio+1&portfolioName2=Portfolio+2&portfolioName3=Portfolio+3&asset1=TotalStockMarket&allocation1\_1=100&allocation1\_2=90&allocation1\_3=54&asset2=TotalBond&allocation2\_2=10&allocation2\_3=10&asset3=IntlStockMarket&allocation3\_3=36&asset4=GlobalBond

I didn't include international bonds in my analysis because their impact on the portfolio is small. Also, the comparison period would have been much shorter because some years of data are not available for international bonds.
 
@neari As /@jhutch77 mentioned, skipping ex-Us based on past results probably isn't a good idea. The below should help explain why a global portfolio can be better than betting it all on one country.
 
@neari Here's something else a lot other comments don't seem to take into account:
https://financinglife.org/bogle-quotes/#:~:text=On%20Reversion%20To%20The%20Mean,often%20than%20you%20can%20imagine.%E2%80%9D
(John Bogle was the founder of Vanguard & the first to introduce an index fund for retail investors.)

@rhianne has a lot of great resources about the benefits of investing in both US & international stocks.

A longer look at history shows that international stocks have outperformed US stocks over many long periods. If we were having this discussion 12-15 years ago, a lot of the performance chasers would be telling you to skip the US stocks.
 
@jhutch77
Historically, US stocks & international stocks have taken turns outperforming each other.

This is true, but misleading.

There have been periods where ex-US has outperformed US by a fairly small amount, followed by periods where US has massively outperformed ex-US.

You always hear the "periods of outperformance" argument when talking about ex-US...but you never hear it discussing any other investment.

Because it's nonsense cherry picked to make ex-US look better than the dog it is.

For that matter, there's no magical law that says that US and ex-US will be cyclical and rotate positions until eternity.
 
@neari I manage my own with a TDF and S&P mix. You'll beat most investors with just the S&P 500 it's riskier though imo. That's why I use the TDF for bring that risk down a little and it works in my brain.

Better than buying 20 stocks and selling, failing to meet the market gain and then paying a guy
 

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