Your TSP choices are bad.

cbc8171

New member
There's been a resurgence of poor investing ideas surround TSP lately. I've posted on the subject prolifically, but like fighting a hydra, as I tackle one bad argument for 100% C fund allocation, 3 more replace it. I'm going to try and combine a lot of my previous posts into this and just cover everything.

If your portfolio is any of the following, you have a sub-optimal or illogical portfolio:
  • 100 C
  • 50/50 C/S
  • 60/20/10 C/S/I
So for proving it.

Here's my old post on how I created a portfolio with a 15% F fund allocation that had better return than a 100 C, 50/50 C/S, and 60/20/20 C/S/I portfolio, and less volatility to boot. And I've updated the backtest from that post to today, and an 80/20 S/F portfolio is still doing better than all the ones I've mentioned above.

So that should at least give you an idea of why your portfolio is potentially sub-optimal. But I'll briefly explain why it's nonsensical too. The argument for a 100 C or a 50/50 C/S is usually along the lines of, "I'm a young, cold-blooded, perfectly rational robot with diamond hands. I want risk to get the best return." If that's the case and you are a pure risk machine and past performance is all that matters, why are you not 100 S? That's the only logical outcome to such thinking. Anything else is illogical if you believe past performance predicts future returns and care not for risk. Now, this isn't me telling you to switch your portfolio to 100 S, this is me showing you that you aren't thinking logically and you might not be designing a portfolio based on logic and reason.

And let's talk about the I fund. I first talked about it here. People think they can look up the past performance of the funds and make a good portfolio going off that sole number. Well you can't. Absolutely nobody who actually knows what they are talking about will ever recommend you a 100% domestic allocation for your equity. The people who do that are redditors, bloggers, and youtubers that lack any sort of credentials, education, or self-awareness of their own ignorance. You know who recommends a healthy international equity allocation? Seriously every professional and the firms they work for, along with every academic along with the entire body of peer-reviewed papers on the subject. Go ahead. Try and find a legitimate source that espouses a 100% C fund allocation. It doesn't exist. When you get tired of looking for that, try instead to look at the target date funds from different firms. From Vanguard, Charles Schwab, Fidelity, JP Morgan, Blackrock, GS, etc. They all average around 35% of their equity allocation going international. And that's what's in line with all the academic research we have.

And lastly let's talk about the L funds. First of all, they've changed. Long have they had the stigma of being "too conservative" but now they've been updated to be more in line with industry peers. If anything, they are now more "aggressive" than industry norm. Secondly, you suck at investing. Yes you, Mr. Illusory superiority. And I say Mr. intentionally because it affects men more than women. This particular fallacy is rampant in the field of personal investing. Take that and combine it with all the data and research we have on investor psychology and behavior and how we've shown time and time again the terrible results that come from investors monkeying with their own investments, and I feel comfortable saying that if you're reading this, your brain is not built for investing and you are your own worst enemy. Which is why the L fund is a god send. You should be thankful for the L fund, sent to save you from yourself. It doesn't make poor decisions. It has a great asset allocation. It automatically rebalances. It will never betray you.

So here is my conclusion and advice. Investing is really complicated, but your actions can be really simple. Pick the L fund that's appropriate for you and never change it. Or if you can't manage that. Please at the very least make it your primary recommendation. We have a lot of junior enlisted members on here who don't know jack about finances or investing. Teenagers that are just trying to build something for themselves, and the new L funds are without a doubt the best option for them.
 
@cbc8171 I can't say that I hate your advice, but I can't stand the attitude, the tone, and the arrogance that's rampant in your post. I appreciate that you want to offer people advice and to get them to invest in what YOU think is the best method for them, but insulting people isn't the way to go about it.
 
@frankiejohn This is the type of post I expect to find on Wall Street bets. The information isn’t bad but the way it’s presented is off-putting.

The good advice is hidden in the middle: use the lifecycle funds.

The community call to action is: recommend lifecycle funds first.

Both are good points.
 
@shineannette Agree with both points. I manage my own funds since I don't want it to automatically adjust for me based on retirement plans, but especially since the new L funds have been out I think that's a great decision for the majority of people.

The post did get me to re-consider my allocation though. I only had 25% international and thought I was on the high side based on what I saw most often. However, I took a look at all the TSP, Vanguard, and Schwab target date accounts and every single one of them had more than 25% international exposure until it started to shift to be more conservative.
 
@julian246 Everyone agrees that it's better to invest in the broad market through index funds instead of picking individual stocks. But people consistently fail to make the next logical step because of the thoroughly researched home country bias. The 45% of the global market is outside the US, but you don't see people espousing a 45% I fund allocation.

Amazon has better past performance than Ford, but we don't see anyone arguing that you shouldn't invest in the market as a whole because it includes Ford, and you should just buy Amazon stock instead. Well just because the US has better past performance than Germany, doesn't mean you shouldn't invest in the market as a whole. And the worst part is that the ex-US market isn't even any worse than the US market. If you look over the past century, the US isn't even the best country and international returns are almost dead even with domestic. But people don't look at that stuff. They look at the last 20 years performance and call it a day.

Target date funds don't suffer from such biases. That's why they're appropriately weighted in international equities. Slightly lighter than the market composition to offset currency risk, but it's a small offset because it's a small risk. So instead of 45% you typically see 35-40%.

The I fund isn't the best index for international investing, which is why I like it closer to 35% than 40%, but not including it all is just silly and nonsensical.
 
@cbc8171 I just prefer to have my international investment funds outside of a TSP. Haven't looked too much into the "new" I fund yet, but I looked up the index the old one followed and preferred to do my business internationally in a different investment vechicle that gave more options. Was kind of a hobby to look into these things so I was able to find a stategy I felt was best for me. I invest internationally, but in funds I like.

If you ever want to take a look at the breakdown you can usually use the tools online to see what percentage is invested in which companies. The interesting and fun part for me is finding put abput companies I never heard of or ones I have, but are bigger (much bigger) than I thought they were. It's like thinking Google is huge only to realize they'te owned by ABC inc. that owns a ton more projects and companies. L'Oreal, Jonson & Johnson, Yum brands, etc. I alsolike looking into certain sectors as well and investing in what I believe will grow and become profitable based on what I think makes sense.

You might look into some IRA options as well if you don't mind looking at breakdowns/the research. If nothing else gives you an idea of the diff options out there and you learn about some international brandd you may not have heard of before.
 
@typo The new I fund index got out on hold unfortunately. It's still the old one. If you have enough space in your IRA to fill out an appropriate allocation in your total portfolio, I'd recommend you keep doing that. I fund is better than nothing, but there are for sure better international indexes available.
 
@cbc8171 No arguments from my end. I'm not sure why I didn't use a target fund as my guide when I set up my accounts with only 25% international years ago. Or maybe I did but the L funds weren't as diverse at the time. I might have seen 25% I fund and any extra G/F I put into "total market".

I've landed on 40/15/35/10 - C/S/I/F, which is about as close as I can get to the Vanguard target fund VTTSX (2060) while keeping it in intervals of 5%. I don't use the actual target funds because I also plan on keeping a similar mix in perpetuity during retirement.
 
@frankiejohn I agree...I absolutely hate these in your face hostile advice posts.

Congrats to OP, his past performance did well...no need to angrily shout it at everyone.

But if that's what all the cool cats are doing,maybe I should make a "fuck you all" post on how I invested in real estate and retired at 30 and everyone here should feel bad they didnt do what I did.
 
@cbc8171 So the link to your old post about past performance isn’t just that?

This whole post would have been received better if you’d actually labeled it for what it was: your opinion. You try to label it as objective fact which is flatly wrong.
 
@g54 None of those links or old posts talk about my personal past performance.

Some opinions are well founded. Others are not. I'm still waiting for someone to provide any amount of research, maybe a white paper or some peer reviewed literature or any other decently sourced advisement, that suggests 100% domestic equity allocations are a good idea.

All opinions aren't equal. Some people might have the opinion they'll be better off day trading penny stocks, and the sub as a whole has no problem rejecting that.
 
@cbc8171 You can wait all day. Convincing a single person isn’t worth my time and effort. I’m sure others feel the same way. You’re welcome to cross post this to /r/FinancialIndependence and someone might give you the light of day. But your down your nose style post doesn’t deserve a real refuted in my opinion. Just heavy downvotes.

The fact you’re comparing passive index fund allocations to penny stock trading is the biggest strawman argument I’ve ever seen.
 
@g54 I'll wait my whole life, because such evidence doesn't exist. It's not because I'm not worth your time or energy.

I've been a long subscriber to that and leanFIRE. There's never been a good argument made there for 100% domestic equity investing. And in those subs and in r/investing and r/personalfinance and r/portfolios, the three fund portfolio (which includes international equity) is much more common as a recommendation from my experience. Though most people make the argument of cutting bonds out of the three fund portfolio while younger, but it still includes international investing.
 
@brooklyn1212 On the subject of the benefits of international investing, several sources can be found in my linked post on it.


If those are insufficient, I can provide more. But I'd urge everyone just to open up Google and search for themselves. Literally everywhere you look, you'll find the same information. International investing is a good thing. I feel like I'm standing in a forest and people are asking me to point out to them something that's the color green. It's a frustrating situation where I just want to scream, "Just look around you!"
 

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