Which cities have the best balance of salary/cost of living in Europe for a mid-level product designer?

lekanfoye123

New member
I’m considering moving to the EU from the US for a better quality of life. I enjoy skiing, mountains, and hiking, so looking into Zurich but open to warmer climates as well. I noticed in Germany and a lot of EU countries, salaries for product design are quite low. However, in Zurich I’m seeing average salaries of about 110-130CHF. Is this a comfortable livable wage even with the high COL? What are some other countries in the EU that pay relatively well for tech roles?

I currently make 120K in the US, so as much as I want a better quality of life I’m a bit nervous about the drastic pay cut I’d have to take in most EU cities. I’d most likely need a job where I can get by only speaking English. I speak some German and fluent Japanese but I doubt that’s very useful in Europe. I have a Japanese passport and could probably get a German passport via ancestry to avoid visa issues if necessary.
 
@lekanfoye123 Nowhere near that numbers in EU. Said from a product design engineer, the US is another level for pay range. As other says it’s quality of live vs high pay. I choose quality of life, I still earn enough more than the average in the country to not worry about, but I ain’t becoming a millionaire
 
@eee27 Also, you seem not familiar with how corporate works. Salaries are not globalised, they open offices based on needs and salaries are country dependent (to a certain extent). Anyhow, I live in the Netherlands and work in a company with >5000 employees in the world. 100k is not possible, maybe at ASML or head of design at Philips.
 
@justneed2talk The salaries are not the same globally, but the baseline is different to local companies. A Google software engineer in Munich is paid much less than one in San Francisco, but still more than one working for BMW at the equivalent level.

You realise 5000 employees is not many right? Amazon employs 1.6 million globally, and AWS alone (so the pure tech part) is over 135,000. Alphabet is over 185,000 and Meta 65,000.

While the actual numbers aren't the same, because the jobs are different, I assure you that a product designer at Google is paid like a Google employee wherever they are in the world. The pattern still applies, even if the raw numbers are different.
 
@eee27 Yeah 5000 is not huge, but it’s not your average startup or middle size company. There are around 150 offices in the world so the reasoning still applies, salaries are based on cost of living of the various countries. + most likely product design is in 2/3 offices in the world it’s not like you do that everywhere. Fact still stands that product design is not what makes people rich, in Google as you mention there are also very few, they mainly do digital design, physical products are the Google nest and a few other things, RnD department may be bigger and they may do more physical stuff, and I expect them to be in the US. Again, product design and digital design are two different worlds, digital pays way more.
 
@twrtoad Sure, but I never saw many people doing physical product design remote. For obvious practical reasons of prototyping and testing and so on. Digital product design maybe. Again, what I see is that positions are often opened in east or southern Europe because they are paid almost half what we get in NL. Software engineers are in high demand and it’s a whole different market + they can easily work from home or wherever they want. I can’t since I work on physical stuff
 
@jacob2i Is a data scientist an industrial designer? I don’t think so. Why don’t we factor in surgeons, investment brokers and politicians at this point? Do you realise different career streams have different salaries? And a data scientist can’t become an industrial designer and vice versa, so this is just a useless data point (ironically, since we talk about data science)
 
@lekanfoye123 You won't get this type of money you have right now, probably in any of those countries. The cost of living will be a bit lower but don't expect some miracles either. It will be painful and it will take some time to adjust. The better quality of life can happen but there is also a chance you will regret your decision.
 
@lekanfoye123 Try to look into the Scandinavian countries. I'm in Copenhagen, Denmark where the pay is among the highest in the EU.

Without being too familiar with how much exactly product designers are paid here, my guess would be that as a mid-level, you should be able to get 88k $ (post tax around 55.8k) here no problem (if you can find a job ofc).

Now, the dollar is very strong at the moment, but if you go to IMF and find the PPP rate for last month (taking into account approximate cost of living) 88k in Denmark would buy you around the same as around 100k usd (~63k in post tax ppp$) in the US.
Yes, the taxes are high. Probably considerably higher than Switzerland.
However, you won't have to worry about healthcare and all that stuff, and cost of living is lower than Switzerland. And work life balance is probably also among the best in Europe.

In most larger companies here you can easily get by with English. Copenhagen is also a pretty international city, with around a third of its residents being born outside of Denmark.

The American tech companies we have here are Uber (in Aarhus), Microsoft, Workday, Roku (Aarhus) (we also have Google and Meta -but only sales).
There is also a pretty big startup scene (for its size). Big non-tech employers such as Novo Nordisk, Maersk etc. also hire product designers, since digitalisation is a huge thing in Denmark.

Otherwise, I've heard that Stockholm, being home to Spotify, also has a decently sized tech scene.
 
@katie8455 Yea, that's a misconception about taxes and Denmark that you often find. You often hear about scary numbers such as '50%' etc. Which is irrelevant for most people in reality. While it is true that we do have a maximum tax rate of that high, the real tax rate doesn't become that high before your annual income exceeds ~340k eur.
That's because how much we pay in taxes increases gradually for different chunks of money we earn.
E.g., everyone has a certain amount of income every year that is considered tax free. Then the lowest rate only applies to the amount that exceeds the tax free income amount; and the medium rate only on the amount that exceeds the amount eligible for low tax rate and so on.. so what that means is that in practice; most people probably pay around 33-36% of their actual income to taxes.

Some examples - the average pay for an entry level, newly trained school teacher is around 57.7k eur. For this income size, the tax rate is 'only' 34% -so with a net of 38k eur and that's more than enough to have a decent quality of life. Whereas, my entry-level, fresh out of school, ML engineer pay of 81.8k eur is taxed 36%.

And we as citizens see where all the tax money is going. Public services, schools, healthcare are free and generally of very good quality. Relatively low inequality, high social mobility, plenty of opportunity for all.

Like most other European countries, workers also have a lot of rights and benefits ofc. 5 weeks paid time off is minimum required by law. But most employers offer an extra week. And then you also get extra days for wedding, birthday and when your child is sick and when you're moving. So in total almost 7 weeks. People generally work no more than 38 hours a week.

The economy is currently doing great and we're outgrowing our neighbors, largely thanks to the pharma and biotech industry.

Another good thing about Copenhagen is that compared to some other Western European capitals, the housing crisis isn't as bad. It's relatively easy here compared to some other countries to get a loan. So most uni-graduates after 2 years max out of school, if they are smart about financials, can easily afford a small/medium sized apartment in the city (or something larger outside the city).

Everyone speaks decent, understandable English. No matter their age. Denmark as a country, I would argue, is pretty agile and innovative, adopting new technologies fast. Everything is digital, so bereaucracy is pretty efficient compared to places such as (especially) Germany.

The only downsides to this place are non-material. Such as; the weather during Winter is depressing af. Windy, rainy all the time (doesn't even snow that often anymore because of climate change). And the food is boring. The landscape is also boring -there are no mountains. While we do have really nice beaches, it's often not warm enough for you to properly enjoy them.

but hey, at least you have plenty of money and paid days off to travel :)
 

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