Where are those super salaries in excess of 200k USD coming from in the US and do such opportunities exist in Europe?

[ericn]

Hi all,

so I am often reading the contributions on FatFIRE. And there people are describing compensation packages which sound fantastical, if I compare them with what there is in Europe (even converting USD to EUR at a rate of 1.2). Like you have stories that if you start as a software engineer at a FAANG, you are already at 250k USD to start with and then can go up to 1MM. These numbers are so high in my view, I really have to question the sanity of the employer to be willing to pay this much or to ask myself, what can objectively be expected from the employee to contribute to the enterprise value to justify such a compensation package (even if I imagine that an American works 80 hours a week it still sounds insane).

The only way in (western) Europe that I can see you are earning somewhere north of 150k EUR Gross is if you are:

1. A top politician (e.g. MPs in the EP make like 16k per month = 192k EUR)
   
2. A Director / Senior Manager / C-level executive of at-least a mid sized enterprise, where you should be getting a compensation of about 140k and more
3. You are a private practice Lawyer / Tax advisor / Auditor (i.e. Partner rank) or a Doctor (e.g. Dentist), who is at-least somewhat successful, in that case you should be easily hitting 120k EUR

Still all the examples citied above are those of very successful people, who had to normally work for over a decade to achieve their status and / or had to clear very stringent requirements to enter their profession (like in Germany an Auditor / Tax Advisor / Lawyer would need to pass some super hard exams beyond simply their university education). But here is no profession I can think off where you would clear at-least 83k EUR gross (about 100k USD), right off the bet out of the uni (perhaps software developer at a large corporation?). Would love to hear some opinions on this.

 

[orthodoxsaintday]

@ericn In tech, these extreme compensations are spilling over to Europe, and you don't need to be a contractor (anymore). It's of course not only salary, but bonus+stock, still. There are many people already making 150k+.

Read this if you're curious:

• https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-salaries-in-the-netherlands-and-europe/

And have a look at these:

• https://techpays.eu/countries/netherlands
• https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Netherlands/

 

[cassmith]

@orthodoxsaintday This! Can’t recommend the pragmatic engineer blog enough. He continuously updates when he gets new data too.

 

[craig01]

@cassmith I see the newsletter comes at a cost. What kind of topics does he cover? Would you recommend it only to people in dev / management of dev positions or to other technical managers too (like security)?

 

[resjudicata]

@craig01 Hey - I write the blog and newsletter.

The blog is free, the newsletter is either free (one monthly post) or paid (weekly). I write on topics for eng managers and senior engineers at big tech and high-growth startups. I don’t target niches like security per say.

The newsletter is basically a way to get 3-4x as more and more targeted information to what I publish on the blog to those who find it useful/applicable.

 

[craig01]

@resjudicata Thanks a lot for answering ! I understand your offering better.

When you say engineering, is it the same as development or how does it differ ?

 

[resjudicata]

@craig01 Software engineering. Software development is a synonym, though software engineering usually reflects a longer-term focus beyond getting the job done.

If in doubt I suggest don’t pay but subscribe to the free newsletter and over a few months you’ll see if it’s enough or you’re interested in more.

 

[craig01]

@resjudicata Yes, that’s what I am going to do! Thanks

 

[zjmcdon98]

@orthodoxsaintday Super interesting blog!

 

[mcpugh]

@ericn My wife (HR manager, 50) and I (Software Consultant, 55) both are independent contractors (zzp). She has an hourly tariff between 90 - 110 euro, I charge between 75 and 150 euro per hour. We both work around 44 weeks per year and try to keep it at 4 days a week (not always possible). Compared to being employed somewhere I think we earn three times more and we have the flexibility to choose our own pension, car etc. Of course the down side is finding a new job several times a year.

 

[ramw]

@mcpugh Out of curiosity, as I consider to switch to freelancing:
1) what is your country?
2) how many hours per week do you typically work? Is it 32-40?
3) what area in software? Sw Development, etc? I see sw developer rates are rather low in Europe - EUR400 per day or so. Architects - 700-800 EUR, which is close to high end salaries+benefits..

 

[mcpugh]

@ramw Netherlands, I am more of a management consultant , focusing on software implementations. Looking to get the most out of the software already in use at the customer and if necessary adding some or (happens a lot) getting rid of useless crap ;p

I work usually around 32 hours a week, sometimes things need to go fast and then it's up to 60 hours a week. Or finishing 1 job while starting the next can cause some serious spikes in hours per week too.

 

[binlid]

@mcpugh Sounds like something I would consider as a next step in my career.
The thing that holds me back here is how to find the next gig every time. Do you mind sharing how you approach this? Is it networking, or do you use a site or organisation that provides you with new projects?

 

[mcpugh]

I worked at the start of my career for a Dutch software company in the Netherlands, from there I worked several years all over Europe and 1 year in the US. I have quite a large network so finding the next job is usually word of mouth and more and more additional work at existing customers.
My wife works a lot through agencies, probably 2 out of 3 jobs. This also gets easier the more jobs you do and build a name for yourself.
Also, COVID and the working from home thing has made our jobs even better; 80% of the time we don’t even have to leave our house so a lot more time can be used for billable hours.
When you start working for yourself the first year is crucial; get a financial buffer, get all your insurances (AOV when you can, definitely look into a brood fonds) and secure your next job in time.

 

[elleoj]

@mcpugh Interesting. How you got into the field and what gave you the insight to succeed in such analysis? Do you work for people of all over the world or just netherlands? If so, have you ever struggled because you did not knew the market?

 

[bkimble001]

@ramw zzp is a dutch thing so i assume he’s in the netherlands

 

[smitty7000]

@ericn Most of these salaries being for big tech in the bay area or similar places, you can easily divide them by 2 or 3 due to cost of living.
I know someone that went to work for Facebook for 200+k and he lives with less space than me and my three times lower wage here in France (his rent being four times higher approx.)

 

[redeemedwhole]

@smitty7000 He probably still saves a lot more.

 

[crescima]

@redeemedwhole And spends way more on healthcare.

 

[jandlcc]

@crescima Not sure why you're getting downvoted to death, but this is 100% correct. I've never heard of an employer who completely subsidizes health insurance like the other poster says. I've worked at hospitals and even the federal government and it's usually "they pay part and you pay part" for health insurance. You still end up paying quite a bit (I pay ~$150/mo as a fed) and that doesn't even begin to take into account the medical expenses that insurance doesn't cover. Healthcare is shockingly expensive in the US