When to Take Profit in O&G Producers, Again?

@resjudicata So midstream encompasses many different subsectors. I'd personally lean towards pure play refiners (PSX for instance). However, if you're looking for energy infrastructure/transfer/equipment, AMLP looks fine. I would likely stay away from pure play service companies like equipment maintenance, as that's very cyclical in nature and something that I don't have much insight into. But that's just my own preference.
 
@a_aron1011 You are basically betting on the future price of oil... you should probably sell since you won't have an edge on Wall Street analysts.

You also should stop shorting because it is incredibly risky.
 
@a_aron1011
Mass-psychology wise, I continue to think we're in the very early innings of mass euphoria in O&G. There is little to no pumping of O&G in r/wallstreetbets or r/stocks.

I have no illusions when it comes to the perception of O&G - it is negative. It will continue to be negative going forward, even as oil rises. The rise will cause renewables to become more and more competitive vis a vis O&G, and this is where all the positive energy will flow. Most places on reddit will never pump O&G as this place is a gigantic hub for ESG minded people. It will be a small minority who outline an accurate case for profitability despite market headwinds which will continue to trash O&G as socially irresponsible.
 
@ericbunic Perhaps O&G will never get to the mass euphoria stage (similar to big tobacco; but see counter-examples of the hype around vape startups). I certainly thought so during 2020 and 2021. But if people have taught me anything, it's that they like to chase gains. A couple more quarters of renewables getting punished more as their multiples continue to contract while oil equities still outperform and become the only safe haven for 1H2022? Big oils successfully relabeled themselves as ESG plays? Who knows what can happen.

Regardless, I will be long gone before that stage anyhow if oil stock price becomes too unmoored from valuation. But what stage of mass euphoria O&G is in informs whether I should take profit or not.
 
@a_aron1011
I will be long gone before that stage anyhow if oil stock price becomes too unmoored from valuation.

IMHO oil has a long way to go before valuations become unattractive. OXY after its 400% run is still well below where it was in 2018, and that wasn't even a time of high oil prices. Oil companies will continue to trade at low multiples but the earnings rise will make it worth it for investors willing to go against the societal grain on this one.
 
@a_aron1011 lol, hello again. =)

No, not yet. I will use IEO for my argument as I mainly see oil via a macro lens. For company-specific analysis IMHO the main factor is leverage, which OXY has tons and thus it's being reflected only now via massive rises because the debate around its viability has finally been settled (this is just opinion)

For IEO, 2017-2020 were fairly bad years, since oil hovered around $60 which is not great for shale producers. Right now, IEO is around the range where it was during this time and has only recently surpassed it. If the prospects for oil itself were lukewarm, then yes, I'd say current prices would be a good exit point, but if anything, prospects for oil prices over the past 3 weeks have increased dramatically.

Oil rises when things are going to shit. I remember oil prices during the Iraq war, it seemed the more incompetent GWB proved himself to be, the more oil prices rose. Putin even sent him a get well card after a surgery he got. IMHO whatever is going on in eastern Europe right now is going to dwarf in tragedy and utter catastrophe what occurred in Iraq, and this is bullish for oil, especially given Russia's central position as a major supplier. I would not be surprised if we surpassed the last record of $140 before Russia is done with what it is doing, which means IEO will likely pass $100 if not much higher during this period. My plan is to re-evaluate at that point. I re-leveraged shortly before we had this discussion.

IIRC this was the thread where we had the debate about oil's popularity. As you have probably noticed recently, for something like oil, the higher it goes, the more unpopular it gets.
 
@ericbunic
As you have probably noticed recently, for something like oil, the higher it goes, the more unpopular it gets.

I am not sure if that's true. People like to chase gains and OXY certainly has been mentioned a great deal more among retail.

I made another comment in your post about OXY but I find the outperformance of OXY compared to other O&G in the recent days baffling. I think a lot of new investors don't realize the structural issues with OXY, the massive debt, and the Buffett's preferred shares. There are lots of other plays that are returning 50% FCF to shareholders right now, unlike OXY, which will still take several quarters even at these oil prices.

Like you, I still see more upside. But sure as hell considering exiting points right now. When either Ukraine crisis is resolved or the Iran deal wraps up, or both, oil will correct by 20% and OXY will correct by 30%+.
 
@a_aron1011
I find the outperformance of OXY compared to other O&G in the recent days baffling.

IMHO OXY was undervalued. It fell by far the most in 2020 when covid hit and it had yet to rise nearly as much as steady plays like MRO. The recent upside is catchup.

When you talk about debt and preferred, all I see is enterprise value and a lot of leverage it can use to extract more profit. The rate on the preferred is annoying though.

The debt had a specific purpose...it was used to acquire productive assets. It's not zombie debt or "bad debt".
 
@ericbunic
MHO OXY was undervalued. It fell by far the most in 2020 when covid hit and it had yet to rise nearly as much as steady plays like MRO. The recent upside is catchup.

When you talk about debt and preferred, all I see is enterprise value and a lot of leverage it can use to extract more profit. The rate on the preferred is annoying though.

The debt had a specific purpose...it was used to acquire productive assets. It's not zombie debt or "bad debt".

All true, which is why I invested in OXY during 2021. But the same upside is also present in A LOT of other equities (eg., OVV) that do not have the same issues as OXY.

OXY is undervalued a couple days ago, but so were a lot of other energy equities. The debt melts away with WTI this high, but instead of clearing debt, other equities would be buying back shares and increasing their dividends bigly. It would be different if OXY had capex plans for 3x production growth. After today's 17% run, OXY's FCF yield is now below many other equities (eg., OVV). Energy is still undervalued if oil maintains $90 for FY 2022, but the margin for OXY undervaluation is significantly less now.

Clearly, market agrees with your leverage argument. OXY responds both to upside and downside of oil prices.
 
@a_aron1011
The debt melts away with WTI this high, but instead of clearing debt, other equities would be buying back shares and increasing their dividends bigly.

OXY is doing all of this:

In addition to the increase in the common dividend $0.13 per share, we intend to purchase approximately $3 billion of outstanding shares of common stock.

We exited the fourth quarter approximately $2.8 billion of unrestricted cash on the balance sheet after repaying approximately $2.2 billion of debt in the quarter.


lol, I was in this when it was Encana back in the day. The inflation thesis we see coming to fruition now was also floated shortly after 2008, and that one burned a lot of people including myself. It convinced me that there's too much natural gas to be profitable. Definitely missed a massive opportunity to have gone into this in 2020.

Natural gas dynamics are very different than oil...it's more a localized commodity, less attuned to global geopolitics than oil. My understanding is that the US still does not have a significant export capability.

Anyway, agree with the rest of your analysis, especially the part about tightening of the OXY thesis going forward.
 

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