When Health Insurance might NOT make sense [Discussion]

trends

New member
[Long post][I might be delusional here]

- A typical health insurance for 10-20 lac base cover for parents (2x 55+ YO people, generally healthy) No room limit, no co pay costs about 35-60K per annum (which will increase overtime, with some 2+ year waiting period for pre-existing diseases). For 20s-30s people it would be about 25-30K per annum.

- Given so many stories of cheating and fraud by hospitals (inflated bills for insured persons, deliberately extending treatments and unfair/hidden costs etc) and insurance companies ( turning down genuine claims citing frivolous reasons, opaque T&C clauses, raising premium every year without justifications etc), does it really make sense to pay that much if I can just put extra money early on in my career aside (say 15 lac in FD, accumulated asap or over 4-5 years) and get away from all this trouble?

I know not everyone can afford or even earn this much to just keep this amount aside, this is not for them anyway (I am talking about people earning 15-20+ lpa and no dependents, generally good health, ain't living too lavish lifestyle).This might require pushing other big purchases down the line, along with keeping some extra money aside for emergencies (2-4 lacs). But if done you have effectively created a fund which gives about 6-7% returns, is extremely liquid and accessible no questions asked and is yours even if not used and gives the same cover as the insurance.

I compared these two here.

(Strictly for healthy people with healthy lifestyle earning above 20 LPA with no big ticket purchases in next 3 years like marriage, house, foreign education etc):


Health Insurance - 15 Lac Sum Insured, checks all required boxes
Health Emergency Corpus - 15 Lac - FD

1. 20K/55K per annum to cover you/your parents respectively.
1. Depending on individuals' exact income and saving rate, lets assume 2.5 Years of saving 50K per month.
2. Covers the person for 15 Lac "qualifying" health expenditure after 30 days or 1/2/3 years for pre-existing disease.
2. Covers the person for 15 Lac all kind of health expenditure after ~2.5 years. Essentially the faster you save the more quickly and for more sum you are covered.

3. 10% chance you may not receive it despite paying premiums for years. 20% chance you might only receive a part of it. 50% chance you might never need it.
3. Bank might default, but likelihood is negligible for big banks. Money is yours if not used.

4. Premiums will increase with age, medical inflation is 14% so sum assured needs to be increased, which will doubly increase the premiums.
4. Same issue, but will at least generate 6% returns (the returns are taxed at 30% though) that is roughly 60K per annum for 15 Lacs. Increase the saved amount as per you income.

5. No claim in an year = money paid is essentially lost ; Stop premiums even once = reset probation period ;
5. Money stays with you, compounds as well. There is additional over-drafting facility for temporary needs.

6. Break-even period is about 16 Years assuming if you invest the same amount in nifty in SIP format at 12% return rate. This is essentially why insurances make sense . But given that in case of no-claim you are staring at a loss of 30lacs (Premium paid + interest lost).
6. Any full-claim during the build-up phase might put you in debt (20% personal loan), in case you cannot work after that you are looking at a very bad situation. Any claim between post buildup to next X year means you stand to lose roughly (15 - 1.5X ) lacs ; I got this figure by assuming 15 Lac FD would be generating roughly 1Lac per annum and at the same time the insurance premium would be roughly 0.5lac per annum, cancelling out income tax and tax benefits. BUT, any balance amount after claim will lie undisturbed, unlike the insurance premium paid.

7. Money secretly leaves your bank, leaves you with more disposable income.
7. Psychologically difficult to process a lumpsum 15 lac outflow in case of a claim. Post build-up phase leaves you with a more reliable and flexible emergency fund.

8. In best case you lose money paid in premiums, in worst case you are looking at a lot of debt and some more money burned in premiums. In average case you save some lacs of rupees in treatment costs.
8. In best case you have ~30 lac additional cash after 10-12 years or proportionally before and after. In worst case you are looking at a lot of debt. In average case you would save some lacs of rupees, but lose out on some cash early on in life and delayed big ticket expenses.

A lot of calculations are hand wavy but preserve the essence. I know this doesn't make sense for a lot of people, it is essentially for people who earn well and can control their spending for few years. It also assumes that health insurance and health industry is majorly a scam.

It might also make sense to do both in smaller volumes (some hybrid). I guess for a particular range of sum-insured it might make more sense than for other (probably higher) range of sum-insured.

Seeking relevant criticism, correction and points in support I missed.
 
@resjudicata
No, you can buy top up health insurance upto 1Cr.

I already admit that the calculation doesn't make sense above 25-30L; In my experience most people buy insurance in 5-20L range.

Not if the proposal form has all true information. They cannot deny. And after 4 years, pre-existing also they cannot deny.

They can, for example if they claim that hospitalization was not necessary or the onset of the disease was spotted way before hospitalization. Depending on your luck this might drag into courts as well and the burden of proof lies on you and not the company. I have heard of many such cases, hence my over-analysis spree.

Yes, because you make that kind of money.

Hence the disclaimers.

Your points make sense for (most) people with moderate earning curve, moderate saving-earning ratio and covers of large sum. What I am trying to suggest is that for people in similar circumstance like me, maybe there exist a better alternative given the awful experience people sharing about health insurances.
 
@trends A colleague with lots of pre-existing conditions who was regularly refused insurance worked hard and smart and set aside 1Cr for good medical expenses.

A health insurance makes sense for those who cannot afford to set aside cash, who cannot afford to pull money out of savings for medical expenses, and who can end up benefiting from paying a little premium for a much higher insurance payout. Most people find one or more of these points applicable to them.
 
@trends I work in a public general insurance company and I can guantee you that we are settling more than 99 percent of the claim. It is the rare fraud claims that we repudiate. Don't assume that health insurance is fraud. It is an essential need.
 
@trends I'm from US so unsure of lacs and INR. From my limited understanding of the finances, it seems to me that catastrophic high medical bills will not cause financial ruin in your country. Is that correct?

If so, based on the low probability of catastrophic high medical bills, it might make sense to forgo insurance and invest premiums yourself. In that sense, you're assuming the catastrophic medical bill risk yourself by self insuring with hopefully the proceeds going to you and not the medical institutions.

Wouldn't think of no insurance in the US if it can be afforded. Medical costs are crazy here. The joke in my family is if you break your arm, fly to Europe to get it fixed. I myself took two week long trips to Europe to get dental work done. The cost including two round trip flights for me and my wife, 4 star hotel accommodations for two weeks, good food and the dental work was about half the cost in the US.
 
@trends I guess one case which you haven't considered is a case where one or more family members have some serious health issues which keep reoccurring year. In that cases, if the 15L is depleted, then it will be tough to refill the savings, specially with the mental pressure such events bring
 
@stanley_4 I didn't considered it because I am assuming this is not the case as I mentioned. Health Insurance make absolutely more sense if you expect recurring expenditures, or even a large expenditure.
 
@trends Based on my experience with insurance:
  • If you are earning well and employed with a large company, corporate insurance can be very good.
  • Over the last two years, I have claimed insurance for a total of 5 times with three cashless and two on reimbursement bases. All happened smoothly without a fuss, except for delayed approval on the date of discharge.
  • I find the treatment to be to the point in case it's cashless insurance from reputed hospitals like Apollo, Fortis and Max. Insurance companies have fixed rates for each kind of surgery/treatment, the number of days of hospitalization needed, kind of expenses accepted etc. These rates are lower compared to cash payments. Doctors understand that the document will be reviewed by the insurance company for approval and hence they can't keep you beyond a point in case of routine treatment. In case the payment is made on cash then they are free to go for over treatment and unnecessary treatments.
The only reason I would like to keep medical insurance is to avoid being taken for a ride by doctors/hospitals, especially in case of routine treatment like contract surgery, delivery, angiography, etc.

Just for context- Delivery charges for insurance companies is 50-70k and for cash patients is 110-125k.
 
@trends Oriental Insurance (Insurance by Company).

And I also liked one of the other comments. Sometimes, different family members need multiple medical attention around the same time (like in my case). So, medical corporate insurance can refresh to start amount each year, but FDs won't.
 
@trends Insurance is a game of probability and Insurance companies play it all the time. Insurance companies collect premiums and invests in different instruments to make returns on the premiums collected Insurance is a trillion dollar business and there is a reason for its huge existence. Unless one has high inflation adjusted passive income without minimal intervention, one shouldn't be without insurance.
 
@trends Im too drunk to read this all, ik the ins and out of health insurance. You have a problem? Come to me and i will try to help you the best
 

Similar threads

Back
Top