Valuation and damage estimation when declaring a total loss

[redrider]

I'm looking for someone with experience to gauge the ongoing interaction I'm having with Progressive on my damaged car. My car was hit by a stolen car while parked on the street (pic). Progressive towed it to estimate, then came back to give a valuation and say it was totaled.

I asked to see the comparables, and found that they compared my 2009 Civic Si (149k miles) to 6 Civic LXs and 2 Civic EXs. I sent back a list of 2009 Si's, showing many were much higher than this, and they proceeded to move to a "more intensive dealer quote process." Presumably, the value could come back higher (still waiting).

In parallel, I asked for the damage estimate to understand what they thought it would take to repair, which is where things got a little weird to me. The response was:

So with vehicles that are evaluated as total losses, there is the outcome where the vehicle is deemed an obvious total loss. This was written up by our inspection yard with listed damages to both doors, the frame, the rocker and other damages resulting in a total loss determination. When that happens, an estimate is not written and the vehicle moves straight to valuation.

I felt there was a contradiction between something being an "obvious total loss" and going back out for a revised appraisal. If we know neither the definitive value or the definitive repair cost, how do we know which side things land on? I also work with body shops and have heard they're repairing over 100% severity due to the inflated prices on used cars right now. The estimate in my claims documents literally shows $0 for everything; I'd be much more inclined to believe this if they estimated e.g. the top 5 most costly items (e.g. straighten frame, paint 3 full/2 blend panels, etc.) and could see this was easily more than the initial $8700 valuation they arrived at (80% in my state).

I've been looking for cars in the meantime, as supply is short and I don't want to get stuck without a car for too long. I've been following up to find out if there's any way the valuation comes back high enough that the car would transition from being totaled to repairable.

We looked over vehicle damages and even with a valuation adjustment, the vehicle being deemed an obvious total loss means it will not likely convert to repairs, because there is fairly significant damages to that frame and the doors.

This was after asking 3 separate times via different wording (answer only to the last time I re-asked), as I really want to know if there's any chance that if I buy a new used car, I also end up with the old one being repaired. To me, "not likely" is not the same as "100% no possible way."

Has anyone experienced this chicken-and-egg where a car is supposedly totaled by just looking and not itemizing the repair, but they also don't know the definitive value? Can I/should I force them to estimate the damage formally at a shop of my choosing? Thanks for any input.

 

[godsoldier911]

@redrider An 09 Civic with 149k miles and frame damage is going to be a total pretty much any day of the week.

 

[redrider]

@godsoldier911 Thanks for your gut check. Do you have a repair estimate rule of thumb that frame damage triggers? Like "any frame damage is always 10k or more"?

 

[emiliazzz]

@redrider What ended up happening to your car? I have a similar car 99 accord with 230k miles that got hit. Was deemed a total loss from their insurance just based on looking at pictures.

 

[itsmepippy]

@emiliazzz Total loss indeed. It's been a while and I'm just coming to your comment vs. reading whatever updates I might have made elsewhere... but I will add that I looked up comparables online, sent to my agent, and they upped the value by something like 1200-1500! Blew my mind.

I had a Civic Si and their comparable list was mostly "regular" Civics, as there weren't many recent sales in my area. If I recall, they did something they call a "dealership quote" process, which indeed gained a higher value.

I now have a 2020 Civic Si. Absolutely not my original intent, but car prices were (are?) so insane, and in my reading, the inflation is worse the older you go.

 

[justluck1234]

@redrider "Obvious total" is a thing -- the insurer is not going to waste time and resources writing an estimate when an experienced person can plainly tell that it's a total. If they end up doing it, it will be to placate you, and just know that it's one of a long line of reasons why everyone's insurance is so expensive.

I will say, the only way you could end up getting this car back is if some moron bought it to fix it (they won't) and you waited 6 months for them to fix it before you buy a replacement (you won't) and you decide to buy a car with a salvage title (you won't). But as Obi-Wan said, only a Sith deals in absolutes. What's actually going to happen with this car is that it's going to a salvage outfit who will strip whatever's good off of it to resell as LKQ and sell the rest for scrap metal.

 

[redrider]

@justluck1234 All fair points. I'm taking in input and making the call as best as I can. I work in collision repair product development and showed it to the owner of a body shop yesterday who did not view it as obviously totaled, though admittedly he didn't have access to it. He thought I should have it estimated.

You are another data point, and I have no way to reconcile whether strangers on the internet or acquaintances in person looking at the same picture are more correct.

Progressive's goal is to maximize premiums for minimum payout. I'm not trying to waste anyone's time, nor contribute to collectively jacking up rates. I don't want to be walked over, either.

I generally agree with the rest (particularly not wanting to wait months for my car to be repaired, despite this being the most economical for my family), though I *have* purchased a prior salvage, so Obi-Wan's wisdom proves itself again. That said, I'll never be the *first* owner post-repair again. Despite having it inspected at a mechanical shop and by a trusted body shop I work with a lot, paint peeled ~2yrs later.

Thanks for your take. I think the challenge is knowing how on the line this is. How obvious is obviously totaled? I still haven't heard them say something like "this is $20k in repairs, easy." That would be simple enough for their expert to relay, and I'd stop wondering.

 

[bfastpool]

@redrider Progressive claim handlers and the estimators look at 25 or more vehicles a week, so they can tell when a vehicle is totaled. Paying a body shop to tear down the vehicle and write a repair estimate is a waste of money at that point. Is this was a 2021 year model, maybe, but for a 13 year old generic econobox, it's pretty simple.

Comps will most likely need to be local brick and mortar sellers. Online retail is normally not accepted for comps.