Toggle insurance (which has been absolute crap btw) has totaled my newly paid off 10k prius over 8.5 k of damage. What do I do?

[amu]

The Kelly BB value is between 8.5 something and 10 for private sale (8.5 is trade in). So it is just on the line even at trade in value. Here are the concerns:

1. It was a low speed crash that smashed the front bumper and broke the winshield. The cops also tore apart my back seat looking for drugs, because I had mentioned I think I had a seizure and I had been prescribed medication. The air bags did not trigger.
2. Toggle kept trying to force me to go to this Caliber Collision shop that they have some kind of deal with, when I had told them to tow it to the dealership for repairs. Toggle has been shady as hell since I started dealing with them.
3. The estimate (around 8.5k) includes tons of things that weren't damaged, like my radio dashboard etc. Only my windshield was broken, and the front bumper. The rates on everything seem a bit ridiculous. They are charging close to 100 per hour for the technical labor, and 50 for the easy stuff. I know they also exaggerate and make up the labor hours, as I know mechanics, and the numbers for the easiest stuff were all rounded up to values like .5 hours

 

[thetruthseeker1983]

@amu Are you a body repair guy?

Most states have thresholds where they have to total it.

100 dollars an hour for mechanical labor isn't bad. 50 an hour for other items is cheap.

I just sent out a payment on Prius that needed a new bumper and headlight, nothing else and that was almost 5 grand.

 

[amu]

@thetruthseeker1983 Everything has been hyperinflated thanks to that unelected buffoon Biden. Even if something shady wasn't intended on, there needs to be checks on things when you look at the big picture that a minor fender bender can allow an insurance company that has been collecting premiums to total the car, pay a fraction to repair it because of their special relationship with the shop, sell the high valued 50 mpg hybrid at a profit a couple weeks later on a hyperinflated estimate, and send peanuts to the original owner.

There are standard hours for each job. I invented hardware accelerated AI that the DoD uses on space satellites to avoid junk and other satellites, the government made me track my time to the nearest 6 minute increment. My starting rate there was close to 40 an hour. They are rounding up to like half hour increments at 100 dollars an hour. They are callously adding things to the estimate that aren't even damaged. The tires and wheels are fine, so is the dashboard yet they are still on there.

 

[thetruthseeker1983]

@amu Okay, buddy.

 

[amu]

@thetruthseeker1983 Oh, and my brother was a team lead mechanic for Lexus, so I do have access to information in that department.

 

[thetruthseeker1983]

@amu Okay, buddy.

Still doesn't change anything.

 

[amu]

@thetruthseeker1983 I'm kind of busy, why are you spamming my notification box with nothingburgers?

 

[thetruthseeker1983]

@amu Cause... You started this...

You obviously have no idea how the insurance industry works. But keep doing you.

 

[amu]

@thetruthseeker1983 I worked as an actuary for a while fresh out of university. I took insurance classes and insurance law classes in school, and have all the shady stuff that goes on in every stage of the process.

When some conman tells me how the process actually works and is talking about corruption, I report them to the FTC with full evidence.

Look up corruption in Greeneville TN. The whole town got busted for all kinds of crazy nonsense. I got them caught after they started messing with my mom. Bogus local fines, town police raping young women on the highway, a police owned chopshop, and attempts to frame people they didn't like in the town. They murdered an old lady to get access to real estate. I sent evidence of all of this to the feds.

I smell crap like this from a mile away, my car would be on the street in two weeks if they total it.

 

[thetruthseeker1983]

@amu Okay, buddy.

 

[diana4jesus]

@amu I'm gonna be honest, pretty much everything you wrote is completely wrong.

To begin with, KBB values are not a good match for the ACV of your vehicle. I mean, obviously their reasonably close just because that's how much cars are worth, but I wouldn't even be looking at that.

1. Sounds like a lot of damage(to your seats). Regardless of why your seats are fucked up, they still need to be fixed.
2. They wanted you to go to a Caliber because they have an agreement with them that helps them expedite claims. It also means you get a warranty on the work. Unless you have the absolute rarest of all vehicles or super premium luxury brands/models, you should go to their shop. It will be faster, you get a warranty AND
3. The software that insurance companies use don't really allow them to "make up" labor hours. This estimate sounds like it was one put together with the dealerships rates, since they are so astronomical. In other words, it's probably like that because of where you took the vehicle.

Full Disclosure: I've never heard of Toggle insurance. They might be the worst insurance company ever, but what you wrote above definitely isn't it.

Edit: Came across harsher than I meant in this post, wasn't my intention. Just really feels like you think you have a good handle on this and from what you wrote, it sounds like you have some misconceptions.

 

[amu]

@diana4jesus The seats are not part of this accident. They were basically caused by police vandalism. That cannot be considered part of this claim, it would be a separate claim. They can't just tack that on and use it as cause for totaling the vehicle.

1. They were told to take it to the dealer, and ignored the request. They can't do that. The insurance company also gets a warrant if they total and then fix the vehicle I am guessing.
2. Not sure what you are talking about here. Insurance didn't send me anything yet, Caliber Collision did. My issues is with the undamaged or unrelated parts on the estimate being used to justify totaling the vehicle.

 

[diana4jesus]

@amu What in the world are you talking about? Gets a warrant? Nobody is going to fix your car. If it's totaled, it'll be auctioned off, damaged.

I don't know where you are getting your ideas from, but they are....very very flawed. I would suggest you stop listening to them.

 

[amu]

@diana4jesus What you are saying is blatantly stupid. My brother is a mechanic, I could get him to fix it. I could pay for the repairs out of pocket at any shop.

Caliber is using fictitious damage to structural parts and impact bar as an excuse to take apart the whole vehicle on the estimate. It was a minor impact, no significant kinetic energy was transferred to the frame.

 

[occamsrazor18]

@amu you didnt list a state, but in most states its either a hard % where it must be totaled - like 75% or a total loss formula. the formula is repairs + possible additional repairs for damaged items + rental + any additional fees VS value - salvage value. so a car with 7k of damage worth 9k could totaled if the salvage was 2k. HOWEVER the insurance can settle claims as they see fit per your policy and can choose to total it at a much lesser amount if they want to. its part of your policy

caliber collision is likely a partner shopw ith toggle, a place where they wont charge storage should the car be a total and they will work more easily with the insurance co to repair it to the parameters of the policy. taking it to the dealer makes no sense-dealers dont do body work in about 99% of cases. they do typically have the scummiest body shops partner with them in most cases cause they are CHEAP. body shop gets a kick back for every car the dealer sends and they repair.

the items not damaged could be simple r and i's (remove and install items) or they could really be trying to pad the estimate. Im an estimator with years of experience as are several other regular posters here. upload the pics and the entire estimate (redact your info) and we can see whats what. the rates could be ludicrous, but you decided to repair it at that place so that is what it is perhaps. where i am in NJ my insurance co i work for pays on average about $60/hr for body work, more for frame work, and about $75/hr for mechanical labor. your average dealer charges WELL over that

as for kbb, worthless. its a national average and its inaccurate as hell. its at best a baseline if the car was literally in perfect shape. it also deals in retail value which your policy does not. your policy is written for actual cash value, this is literally the barebones of what the car would cost to replace. no mark ups/profit (a dealer didnt buy the car for 10k to resell it for 10k and make 0 profit, so they LIST IT for 12k and hope to breakeven) or other fees

your vehicle will be evaluated for a total loss and gone over with a fine tooth comb.t hey will find every single item that is wrong with the car from blemishes in the paint, rust, scratches, dents, dings, stains, leaks, down to measuring the tires. all will be used to figure out the cars value. along with the installed options and any additional aftermarket parts you may have installed.

 

[amu]

@occamsrazor18 They have replacement for parts listed that are not damaged. They also added vandalized parts that are not part of the accident claim. Labor rates are 97 and 50, and it looks like they are distributed correctly hour wise.

How can they go over the car with a comb to figure out the pre-accident value when they don't know if any damage was caused before or after? According to your formula, loss of pre-existing value due to pre-existing damage does not equal repair cost.

 

[occamsrazor18]

@amu Contact them and go over everything to explain what was not part of the accident and what is.

 

[ajbarton97]

@amu Toggle, a branch of farmers branded differently so they can be ultra low cost without damaging the farmers brand?

1. I’m sorry you had a medical episode. I hope you’re feeling better.
2. it’s not up to toggle what shop you use. If you’re concerned with inflated cost of repair it’s probably a great thing you didn’t go to the dealer. Idk that dealers have ever been inline with the market. A lot of times they are over the market and customers get charged for the overage.
3. make it clear to your adjuster that there are non loss related things on the estimate and give them a list of what those are.

A direct repair shop is charging labor rates inline with the contract they have with the insurance company who has done a market rate survey.

Farmers/toggle is not in the business of being over charged in rate by a company they send business to.

As for labor times the shop writes an estimate, the company audits the estimate if the estimate meets criteria for that and they work it out per the contract they have.

I think your main concern is not getting your car totaled and I’d focus on things that aren’t included in the loss.

Just tell your adjuster there’s stuff on the estimate that isn’t loss related and tell them what those things are.

good luck.

 

[amu]

@ajbarton97 I agree, and thanks. However I am also concerned that with hyper inflation there is a potential for immoral activity here. They can "total" cars that are barely damaged, repair them on the cheap, and resell them for a profit. In edge cases like this, I have heard from others that this is exactly what happens.

 

[diana4jesus]

@amu Dude, you have nooooooooooooooooooooo idea how insurance works. Nobody is fixing your car. Like. It's the least likely thing to ever happen. What would an insurance company even do with a repaired vehicle?