Taxing a Worker Owned GbR in Germany

[redeemed121]

Hello, we're a small company providing logistics in Germany (courier services via bikes). We registered as a GbR to have it represnt us to clients. 4 of us are registered as members, and occasionally we have non member freelancers doing shifts "for" us. In practice the company shouldn't have any growth or profit, as whatever any of us earns from our clients, goes directly to their pockets (after our expenses such as space rent, bike repairs etc.) Therefore there's no real hierarchy money wise, GbR and non GbR members get whatever we earn from active work.As I understand, all of us, within and outside the company would pay our personal income tax, but on top of that, the GbR should declare trade tax (gewerbesteuer).

My question would be:Since all the earnings of the GbR go directly to individuals and nothing more or less remains inside the company, is the company's profit therfore declared and taxed (GewSt) as 0? If not, is it then reasonable to charge anyone who works under the GbR, member or not, a certain "fee" to keep for the GewSt payment at the end of the year? Thanks for any help.

 

[geranium]

@redeemed121 I don't know, and I wouldn't trust anyone on reddit for an answer. It's highly specific.

You need to talk to a Steuerberater.

I wouldnt be surprised if you ran into issues with paying member directly from clients. Who's paying tax? Who's paying insurance? Who's liable ?

This sounds very problematic tbh.

I wouldn't be surprised if what you think is "client -> member" payment, is correctly , "client-> company -> member payment", for which taxes need to be payed.

But again, Steuerberater

 

[redeemed121]

@geranium Thank you. Sorry, I may have not provided enough details. But yes, we as a GbR collect fees from the clients, then pay non GbR members and ourselves. The GbR also declares and pays VAT (USt) and insurance. We, GbR members, are liable.

I'm aware that Steuerberaters would definitely be able to answer this, but was asking in this forum in case anyone has personal experience.

 

[geranium]

@redeemed121 From your phrasing, it doenst seem like you really understand German taxes. This is super dangerous, especially as a GbR- where you and all your partners are liable with Private property.

If you mess up slightly, you could be fined multiple times what you failed to declare. Don't take this lightly. A qSteuerberater is more like a lawyeer than an advidsor. You wouldnt ask reddit for advice on what to say in court either..

 

[redeemed121]

@geranium Thanks for your advice. I'm definitely hiring a tax advisor as well but wanting to gleam whatever information I could from others who are knowledgeable in the field first.

 

[inkarpathos]

@redeemed121 As a GbR, every member is personally liable with all their assets proportionally to what the GbR is liable.

If you hide earnings or do not do proper accounting for tax purposes, you will eventually get caught by Finanzamt.

 

[redeemed121]

@inkarpathos Thanks for your answer. I believe you may have not followed the question fully. There is absolutely no intent in hiding earnings, but the question is what is considered earnings (meaning, taxed under GewSt) by a company that pays all members and non members directly for their labor, therefore not holding additional profit.

Thanks for the help anyway

 

[inkarpathos]

@redeemed121 I have not misunderstood your question. I understand it very well. That you do not understand what earnings are shows you will not be able to properly do accounting and tax returns.

I suggest you urgently get a real tax advisor (real ones charge ~200-250€/h net) and have them sort you out.