Saving for mortgage vs leaving Canada

[ahappycamper]

@cankosker Tons of places around the world where things are much more fairly priced. The US is the place to look for the highest salary though. if you choose wisely you could probably find a good place to buy there as well.

I am personally saving as much as possible and leaving Canada. Heading to Europe. Your description of housing here as an NFT is the most apt one i've ever heard. Even if you find something here, you'll be extreme house poor. I'd rather have a decent place AND decent quality of life.

 

[cankosker]

@ahappycamper Ah interesting, thank you for your insight. Helps clarify the US is one of the strongest choices. Europe is also an interesting choice. I guess it might be easier to get a TN if I ask my job for a relocation in the US - that being said, I don't see any reason why not to apply to Europe if I'm planning on moving anyways

 

[kimmac23]

@cankosker Are you a remote worker? Canada is a big place and there are lots of cheap places to live if you're willing to live in a smaller community. Things like Starlink and Amazon make rural living super easy these days.

 

[cankosker]

@kimmac23 I wish! Need to go into the office a few times a week. Eventually if I can land a remote programming job (with good pay) I would definitely consider that as a good option!

 

[julterp]

@cankosker Check out TD's report on the State of our economy:

Mind the Gap:

Canada is Falling Behind the Standard-of-Living Curvehttps://economics.td.com/ca-falling-behind-standard-of-living-curve

I would say A. States is the best for tech but it seems to be in the doldrums now (for tech, otherwise their economy is humming at 5% annual and just created 216,000 jobs). But Canada is far worse (we created 100 jobs in that same time period and last I checked, -1.1% (contraction) in the economy with a very very obvious housing bubble our citizens can't afford. Just read the macro economic data, you're an SWE, you know your math.

I graduated from Waterloo, all my CS buddies are killing it in the States (but I graduated long ago). They got into FAANG companies right away. They said if they stayed in Canada, they'd be stuck under 6 figures, over there, they can go up to 7. Same with the entrepreneurs, it's harder to raise capital here, but Silicon Valley is THE place, you get network effects.

 

[missh]

@cankosker These two questions are unrelated. There are a lot of reasons to leave Canada but that the population is obsessed with an asset class that is in a bubble is not going to make it even close to the top ten reasons to leave.

I am tired of discussing housing so I'm going to skip that part and only say don't be brainwashed into believing you need to own. If you make good money and want to live upmarket then renting is the correct play. Do the math and you'll understand.

On the topic of leaving Canada I am currently preparing to do so but I am much older than you. At graduation I had four career options and for three out of four I would have moved instantly to the United States given the pay would be more than twice as high and I'd get to live in a better country. I ended up choosing the 4th option and that was the one where staying in Canada was the correct play which is why I am only leaving now that I am older.

I personally am very bearish on the future of Canada. It isn't just one thing but a bunch of things and they are all connected and there is no way to fix things that would be politically acceptable. My expectation is that Canadian quality of life will get just a little bit worse every year and it will add up. If I had children your age I would be pushing them to leave Canada.

With respect of where to go and how viable that is for you a lot comes down to what you plan to do for a living.

 

[justanoldfeller]

@cankosker A minute ago i saw another reddit thread about staggering amounts of people in US committing suicides because they can’t afford Insulin. So there’s some perspective on your option A.

Every country/city has good and bad stuff. You gotta pick based on what your priorities in life are. Canada is a great country imo in terms of safety, quality of life, etc.
Grass is always greener on the other side but If i had to move, i would love to move to Netherlands/France. Not because of dissatisfaction with Canada tho, i just love those countries too.

Good luck on whatever you end up choosing. Cheers

 

[cankosker]

@justanoldfeller Yeah. A lot of people are saying 'don't even consider moving'. Since I'm mobile enough though, I'd thought I might as well ask about comparisons, educate myself, and see if there's anything worth being gained by leaving.

Honestly moving to Europe, East Asia, South Africa, etc, might give me benefits that the 'don't even consider moving' crows would consider - picking up a new language, learning about a new culture, etc.

Still, I'm coming up with an honest pro vs. con list and trying to plan my future, in a further futureless world.

 

[zonderzug]

@cankosker If you have SKILLS and DRIVE, then LEAVE. Canada is not for you.

There is plenty of exciting and affordable places

 

[cankosker]

@zonderzug That's the flowchart, eh? Well there's nothing tying me to Canada, except for bad memories of being homeless. I'm confident in my skills and my job history at global software companies might help. Sounds like a vote for leave, thanks!

 

[zonderzug]

@cankosker Should you need an additional angle...

Which options are you the most likely to not regret?

Be rational and try to keep 'fear of the unknown' trap out of your decision making process. Good luck

 

[torturedsoul]

@cankosker Move away ..it's too expensive

 

[cankosker]

@torturedsoul Haha, fair. Where would you move to out of curiosity?

 

[torturedsoul]

@cankosker Europe.....

 

[seekeroftruth_2015]

@cankosker People say Europe, but as someone who's dating a European, it's not really any different. Lower housing cost, but harder days and less safety right now depending on your location.

Either way no matter what you do it'll always have it's pros and cons and unfortunately I dont think many people are gonna be helpful in this situation.

We're all kinda stuck in the same boat trying to save ourselves instead of our communities as a whole. We need to stop running from the problem and start doing something about it. What that is, idk, I'm not intelligent enough to come up with a plan to fix it all but I can definitely say running isn't going to fix anything that's for sure.

 

[inception]

@cankosker

I feel like buying a house in Canada is a lot like buying an NFT; not worth it's cost, and mostly speculative.

Nice line!

Anyways, if you can save 60k in 4 years, you probably don’t have the income to mortgage a house. Go where the money is. Look for higher paying jobs first. If that’s Canada, great.

 

[cankosker]

@inception Haha thanks! Sadly I'm only slightly kidding.

The 60k usd is just the equity I can put towards housing, which would be built up over 4 years because of job. Might be able to save up to 20k per year from salary, depending on how much the cost of living goes up.

I just don't want to end up buying the exact same product that I can get for cheaper elsewhere, you know? Especially if I'm not physically tied down to Canada.

I definitely don't want to overpay the better part of a million for a place to live on, only to see a crash as well.

 

[faith916]

@cankosker My dude you keep talking about a housing crash that isn’t coming.

Most people aren’t underwater on their houses, and banks have become much more sophisticated at working with clients to avoid defaults. Have you seen the number of defaults in Canada? It’s near 0.

Well over 60% of adult Canadians own their home so the government isn’t going to step in to lower housing prices.

Save your money, don’t live in Toronto or Vancouver and buy a house in Canada.

 

[cankosker]

@faith916 Maybe. I'd like to compare Canada to other countries and then decide what to do though.

 

[faith916]

@cankosker You will find two things, from a housing cost perspective: expensive countries that will allow you to buy real estate and less expensive countries with protected real estate markets.

Places that people want to live are expensive because, well, people want to live there.