Please critique my plan to become a software developer and move to a town with cheap housing in 5-10 years where I can work from home
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joshsburroughs
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@kayvin 118 - 56 = 62
62 -57 = 5
where did the 5 hours go?
And 7 hours per week (in total?) to shower and eat? How many times are you eating a day? I assume you’ll be cooking the food too, unless you UberEats every meal or buy frozen meals at the grocery? And cleaning up after yourself?
Guess my point is you’re running your numbers like you’re a machine. Cutting it too close. At manufacturing, we factor in downtime, waste, maintenance, repairs to machines that are meant to run 24/7. So that 50 hours can easily be just 40, maybe realistically 30 per week.
Life is full of unexpected surprises. One emergency medical event can throw your numbers off. Or if working like a robot like this, burnout can be a real thing.
62 -57 = 5
where did the 5 hours go?
And 7 hours per week (in total?) to shower and eat? How many times are you eating a day? I assume you’ll be cooking the food too, unless you UberEats every meal or buy frozen meals at the grocery? And cleaning up after yourself?
Guess my point is you’re running your numbers like you’re a machine. Cutting it too close. At manufacturing, we factor in downtime, waste, maintenance, repairs to machines that are meant to run 24/7. So that 50 hours can easily be just 40, maybe realistically 30 per week.
Life is full of unexpected surprises. One emergency medical event can throw your numbers off. Or if working like a robot like this, burnout can be a real thing.
@kayvin Make sure you drink a pure liquid diet (oil, oats, protein powder, multivitamin & laxitive smoothie), one meal per day, and have your meal and daily bowel movement in the shower to maximise your time for self improvement.
In all seriousness your plan is a little unrealistic on the details so you will get a lot of hate here, but you have the basics down (get a job, spend less than you earn, invest and keep learning).
Saving $150k in 5 years and $300k in 10 years are achievable goals, as is buying a house and retraining and finding a new career path, and getting a 100% remote job. But they are 5 to 10 year goals (and you might not achieve all of them at once). Plans change and life will get in the way, so make sure you allow some mental health/contingency hours in your schedule otherwise you might burn out on year 3/5 and not hit your targets.
In all seriousness your plan is a little unrealistic on the details so you will get a lot of hate here, but you have the basics down (get a job, spend less than you earn, invest and keep learning).
Saving $150k in 5 years and $300k in 10 years are achievable goals, as is buying a house and retraining and finding a new career path, and getting a 100% remote job. But they are 5 to 10 year goals (and you might not achieve all of them at once). Plans change and life will get in the way, so make sure you allow some mental health/contingency hours in your schedule otherwise you might burn out on year 3/5 and not hit your targets.
resjudicata
New member
@kayvin
This is some major risk that can easily destroy your plan.
I did something very similar but I did have a master degree in computer science (5 years) + 4 years of work experience. If you don't have someone who is happy to hire you remote already I think this will be very tricky.
I also work as freelancer and run my own business so income is far from reliable.
This is some major risk that can easily destroy your plan.
I did something very similar but I did have a master degree in computer science (5 years) + 4 years of work experience. If you don't have someone who is happy to hire you remote already I think this will be very tricky.
I also work as freelancer and run my own business so income is far from reliable.
@kayvin It is certainly possible to live in a smaller city and work remotely. I do that; live in Hastings, work for an Aussie company. I still go into the office occasionally but as it's in Sydney I do 2 weeks at a time.
It is also possible to be self taught and work in software dev. Again me, my degree is in engineering not dev
However it took a lot of time, and a lot of luck, to get here.
You need to prove ability to get hired. Qualifications are great, even from a boot camp. If you don't have qualifications then you need evidence: open source projects, contributions, blogs etc.
You cannot do 50 hours a week of training without burnout.
In your situation my plan would be:
It is also possible to be self taught and work in software dev. Again me, my degree is in engineering not dev
However it took a lot of time, and a lot of luck, to get here.
You need to prove ability to get hired. Qualifications are great, even from a boot camp. If you don't have qualifications then you need evidence: open source projects, contributions, blogs etc.
You cannot do 50 hours a week of training without burnout.
In your situation my plan would be:
- Save enough money to be able to stop working for a few months
- Do a boot camp
- Get a job as a junior dev, working in the office. Working with others in a team is a great way to level up fast.
- Progress and then look for remote work
@kayvin So I can't speak to the career side of this but I moved out of Auckland to get more affordable housing as I shifted to full-time freelance work. I'm a motion graphics designer and have been in the industry since 2006, going fulltime freelance in 2016, moving out of Auckland to the Wairarapa at the beginning of 2017. I am lucky enough to get work from contacts I made up in Auckland as well as a couple of overseas corporate clients. I haven't even really looked for work locally, although I'm at a stage where I don't seek out clients, I just have people book me for projects.
I think to make yourself appealing as an option for remote work, you need to offer some pretty good skills and having established relationships can help as people already know you and trust you to not fuckup. So I'm not saying your plan won't work, but there is something to be said for getting some in person experience beforehand as sometimes getting work comes down to a client just preferring to work with you because you're not a pain in the as vs your actual skillset (assuming you don't suck).
As for moving out of a large city to live in a smaller town, for us it worked as we had one kid when we moved and now have three so this smaller town lifestyle suits us - we appreciate it given the stage we're at in life. But we were also very intentional in where we moved to so that we still had relatively easy access to larger cities for everything from shopping to events.
Also, life isn't a spreadsheet and things don't usually go to plan, unless it's just me, so maybe try and keep that in mind and prepare for things to go in a way you may not have expected.
I think to make yourself appealing as an option for remote work, you need to offer some pretty good skills and having established relationships can help as people already know you and trust you to not fuckup. So I'm not saying your plan won't work, but there is something to be said for getting some in person experience beforehand as sometimes getting work comes down to a client just preferring to work with you because you're not a pain in the as vs your actual skillset (assuming you don't suck).
As for moving out of a large city to live in a smaller town, for us it worked as we had one kid when we moved and now have three so this smaller town lifestyle suits us - we appreciate it given the stage we're at in life. But we were also very intentional in where we moved to so that we still had relatively easy access to larger cities for everything from shopping to events.
Also, life isn't a spreadsheet and things don't usually go to plan, unless it's just me, so maybe try and keep that in mind and prepare for things to go in a way you may not have expected.
michaelcon
New member
brendanjamesstephen
New member
@michaelcon Ultimately my plan, wfh at the moment but in this role not sure how long that will last. Tho have 30 years experience rather than none...
@kayvin I hope people realise this is satire.
Although I unironically did something similar.
I got a job in Welly and worked for 3 years saving a deposit size of 65k. I wrote a piece of software for my company which 40% of our staff used and was core to our operations. I found a place in Christchurch which was 325k starter townhouse at the end of 2020. Got permission to work remotely and bought it. I work from home full time and make 100k at 24.
I sold a year later for 440k and and traded up.
Although I unironically did something similar.
I got a job in Welly and worked for 3 years saving a deposit size of 65k. I wrote a piece of software for my company which 40% of our staff used and was core to our operations. I found a place in Christchurch which was 325k starter townhouse at the end of 2020. Got permission to work remotely and bought it. I work from home full time and make 100k at 24.
I sold a year later for 440k and and traded up.
nightmare7
New member
@kayvin I can’t speak to your schedule, but just regarding buying a house
We did what you want to do and moved to a small town to buy a house in 2014. Bought the cheapest house in town, a tiny 2 bed for $120,000. The real estate agent said we could live in the shed and pull it down
That same house is now estimated at 500k. Saving for a house is good but don’t be hung up on being mortgage free
We did what you want to do and moved to a small town to buy a house in 2014. Bought the cheapest house in town, a tiny 2 bed for $120,000. The real estate agent said we could live in the shed and pull it down
That same house is now estimated at 500k. Saving for a house is good but don’t be hung up on being mortgage free
@kayvin Hey friend, I can relate a lot with this post because it’s how I sorta planned my way through life too. As someone who tried I can tell you it’s a little too ambitious. And 10 years is a long time !! It’s literally between 33%-50% of your life. You will change as a person in that time and you’ll gain life experience that will help you make better decisions. I wouldn’t say it’s wise to lock in a plan now.
It might not be too hard to get a house for $300k in a cheaper town, but it is hard to get a good house. And owning a house comes with its own set of problems, namely maintenance and repairs which will be a huge problem if you’re buying an older house in the wop wops.
Also I’d say get your job first and then make the grand plans. Everything crumbles if you aren’t able to land that dream job and progress upwards. There are definitely careers in the software dev space that are terrible for growth. It’ll still be a mission finding a good place.
As others have said, working remotely is something you can push for when you have the respect and experience to back your managers taking you seriously. When you’re a junior they’ll just replace you if it’s not convenient for them or you won’t be able to move to a small town, which kinda crumbles your plan does it not ? I’ve been a developer for 2+ years now and I’m pretty much intermediate at this point and even I’d feel a little uncomfortable asking to work fully remote (even though I do work 4 days from home)
And you’ll feel lonely in this time. I don’t know you but I do know people and people will get very lonely and depressed without companionship whether it be from a partner or a set of friends. Life in the smaller towns is not easy if you aren’t used to it, it’s very different from city life. Things close by 3pm. There are barely any events happening around you compared to in the city. And things like shipping costs and availability for items can become a problem.
Good luck man! I totally get the whole idea of not wanting a mortgage. I’m also trying to navigate life without a mortgage for religious reasons.
It might not be too hard to get a house for $300k in a cheaper town, but it is hard to get a good house. And owning a house comes with its own set of problems, namely maintenance and repairs which will be a huge problem if you’re buying an older house in the wop wops.
Also I’d say get your job first and then make the grand plans. Everything crumbles if you aren’t able to land that dream job and progress upwards. There are definitely careers in the software dev space that are terrible for growth. It’ll still be a mission finding a good place.
As others have said, working remotely is something you can push for when you have the respect and experience to back your managers taking you seriously. When you’re a junior they’ll just replace you if it’s not convenient for them or you won’t be able to move to a small town, which kinda crumbles your plan does it not ? I’ve been a developer for 2+ years now and I’m pretty much intermediate at this point and even I’d feel a little uncomfortable asking to work fully remote (even though I do work 4 days from home)
And you’ll feel lonely in this time. I don’t know you but I do know people and people will get very lonely and depressed without companionship whether it be from a partner or a set of friends. Life in the smaller towns is not easy if you aren’t used to it, it’s very different from city life. Things close by 3pm. There are barely any events happening around you compared to in the city. And things like shipping costs and availability for items can become a problem.
Good luck man! I totally get the whole idea of not wanting a mortgage. I’m also trying to navigate life without a mortgage for religious reasons.
@kayvin Don’t spend too much time working through the details of your plan because it is impossible to plan your life ten years into the future.
My read of your situation is that you feel trapped in your current career path and want to pivot. You’ve probably heard about the current demand for experienced software devs and their salaries, and realised that changing course might open the door to a different type of life than you currently have.
All of this is reasonable. The only catch is that all of the advantages you are seeing for software devs are the result of their many years of experience. They can only pivot into remote work because its a refactoring of their already proven skills and abilities.
I’m a former software dev. My advice is that you park the dream of remote work or rural living and instead concentrate on solving more immediate and practical problems like starting to code, doing some online courses and finding out if you actually want to program. You’ll know within a year or two if it’s really something that you want to continue with.
And - this is important - don’t limit yourself to computer programming if it doesn’t turn out to be what you expected. The world is filled with opportunity. You can always pivot again.
My read of your situation is that you feel trapped in your current career path and want to pivot. You’ve probably heard about the current demand for experienced software devs and their salaries, and realised that changing course might open the door to a different type of life than you currently have.
All of this is reasonable. The only catch is that all of the advantages you are seeing for software devs are the result of their many years of experience. They can only pivot into remote work because its a refactoring of their already proven skills and abilities.
I’m a former software dev. My advice is that you park the dream of remote work or rural living and instead concentrate on solving more immediate and practical problems like starting to code, doing some online courses and finding out if you actually want to program. You’ll know within a year or two if it’s really something that you want to continue with.
And - this is important - don’t limit yourself to computer programming if it doesn’t turn out to be what you expected. The world is filled with opportunity. You can always pivot again.
@kayvin There are a lot of doom and gloom comments here which I suggest you ignore. Sadly this sub has gone the way of r/nz and anything aspirational gets ripped to pieces.
Your plan isn’t insane at all. Sure, some details are probably a little fine grained, but as a general direction this isn’t bad.
I’ve worked remotely as a software developer for about 4 years now (10 years of total IT experience) and I could definitely move to a small town and carry on if I wanted to.
The number 1 thing you need to achieve is your first dev job. You can study and do tutorials until the cows come home but nothing will prepare you for the real deal like a dev job.
Getting a remote dev job as a junior is going to be a hard task. Not impossible, but hard. As a senior it’s going to be fairly easy. To go from nothing to solid senior will take you 3 - 5 years if you’re exceptionally talented but likely 10 years for most people.
In your spare time once you’ve learned some basics tru to take on some remote contracts like building simple websites etc. That’s a great place to start.
I won’t comment on your housing plan beyond saying that yes the regions are cheaper.
Well done for thinking about your future and putting a plan together. My theory is that you need a solid direction more than a fine grained plan as details often change along the way. But imo you’re thinking along the right track.
Your plan isn’t insane at all. Sure, some details are probably a little fine grained, but as a general direction this isn’t bad.
I’ve worked remotely as a software developer for about 4 years now (10 years of total IT experience) and I could definitely move to a small town and carry on if I wanted to.
The number 1 thing you need to achieve is your first dev job. You can study and do tutorials until the cows come home but nothing will prepare you for the real deal like a dev job.
Getting a remote dev job as a junior is going to be a hard task. Not impossible, but hard. As a senior it’s going to be fairly easy. To go from nothing to solid senior will take you 3 - 5 years if you’re exceptionally talented but likely 10 years for most people.
In your spare time once you’ve learned some basics tru to take on some remote contracts like building simple websites etc. That’s a great place to start.
I won’t comment on your housing plan beyond saying that yes the regions are cheaper.
Well done for thinking about your future and putting a plan together. My theory is that you need a solid direction more than a fine grained plan as details often change along the way. But imo you’re thinking along the right track.
raleigh36girl
New member
@kayvin I can't belive the amount of negative comments on here, trying to cut you down. I've done this exact thing myself and it's great.
This is absolutely an achievable plan if you're committed to it.
I studied computer science at university in the mid 2000s. I then worked corporate software developer jobs in Akl and Wlg for about 12 years until I became experienced. I flatted with others the whole time, saving on rent, and I was kinda frugal but not to the point where I had no fun, still went out, still bought a few nice guitars etc. In 2016 I moved out of Auckland, used my savings to buy a 4 bedroom house with a decent size section in the Manawatu with over 50% deposit, and worked remotely as a software dev, even started my own company. Mortgage basically paid off now by the time I'm in my late 30s. No wife or kids to support however.
For you, I'd recommend getting an actual qualification - it will be quite hard getting a good paid job by only being self taught. As an experienced dev, you can always tell the ones who are self taught, they are never as well rounded. You'll also need to spend several years working in an office in the city to build up your experience - I have my doubts anyone will hire an inexperienced remote dev although you may get lucky.
Still, a decent plan. It's nice living in the regions and choosing your own hours.
This is absolutely an achievable plan if you're committed to it.
I studied computer science at university in the mid 2000s. I then worked corporate software developer jobs in Akl and Wlg for about 12 years until I became experienced. I flatted with others the whole time, saving on rent, and I was kinda frugal but not to the point where I had no fun, still went out, still bought a few nice guitars etc. In 2016 I moved out of Auckland, used my savings to buy a 4 bedroom house with a decent size section in the Manawatu with over 50% deposit, and worked remotely as a software dev, even started my own company. Mortgage basically paid off now by the time I'm in my late 30s. No wife or kids to support however.
For you, I'd recommend getting an actual qualification - it will be quite hard getting a good paid job by only being self taught. As an experienced dev, you can always tell the ones who are self taught, they are never as well rounded. You'll also need to spend several years working in an office in the city to build up your experience - I have my doubts anyone will hire an inexperienced remote dev although you may get lucky.
Still, a decent plan. It's nice living in the regions and choosing your own hours.
gabbleduck
New member
@kayvin Please don't be a dev if you're not passionate about it, take the time to see if you made for it.
I've seen too many people switching to dev that are not autonomous, not willing to grind extra hours for the sake of their own skills / comprehension.
It's a tough job, you got to write clean, and it takes lot of time and trial to arrive a this point and top of that technology evolves to quickly that if you're not passionate enough you won't be able to follow through.
Be sure you love it, cause you'll do it a lot, it's a not 9-5 job
I've seen too many people switching to dev that are not autonomous, not willing to grind extra hours for the sake of their own skills / comprehension.
It's a tough job, you got to write clean, and it takes lot of time and trial to arrive a this point and top of that technology evolves to quickly that if you're not passionate enough you won't be able to follow through.
Be sure you love it, cause you'll do it a lot, it's a not 9-5 job
beautifullsoul
New member
@kayvin I self taught my self web development and after nearly 3 years got a job as a junior software developer in Christchurch. You’ll definitely have to be working in an office environment at the start at least, since you will absolutely know nothing when you start. It’s always a great opportunity to learn from more experienced engineers, which has helped me immensely in my career, I’ve learnt more from others than I did self teaching.
cbonetwobe
New member
@kayvin I think the path you've laid out sounds really hard, although somewhat easier post-covid. There's very little trust for remote developers. There's also very little trust for self-trained developers. Put these together and I think you'll really struggle to find work.
Here's an alternative.
Get an apartment in the city. It doesn't have to be big since you'll be spending most of your time sitting at a computer anyway. Get an in-person job, and work hard developing your skills in your spare time too so you can get promotions and stuff.
Develop a reputation as someone that is really good, probably in one or two specific niche areas. Shift into contracting and become the fix-it guy for those areas. Then move somewhere cheap: Gore, Greymouth, etc. Pick somewhere with a quick commute to the city you developed your reputation, so perhaps nearish an airport with direct flights. Budget on this being needed indefinitely but reducing over time.
Once you've got a decent reputation as 'the guy who does X', and you've got a bunch of people vouching for you being good at doing it remotely, I think you'll be able to get remote contracting gigs from anywhere and make this work. Effectively you'll end up pretty much exactly like your question asked, but via an indirect route.
I also think this will get slowy easier over time. I've seen an increasing number of 'fully remote' jobs advertised, including by startups paying in USD. Mix that with the cost of living in say Gore and you're going to save very fast.
Here's an alternative.
Get an apartment in the city. It doesn't have to be big since you'll be spending most of your time sitting at a computer anyway. Get an in-person job, and work hard developing your skills in your spare time too so you can get promotions and stuff.
Develop a reputation as someone that is really good, probably in one or two specific niche areas. Shift into contracting and become the fix-it guy for those areas. Then move somewhere cheap: Gore, Greymouth, etc. Pick somewhere with a quick commute to the city you developed your reputation, so perhaps nearish an airport with direct flights. Budget on this being needed indefinitely but reducing over time.
Once you've got a decent reputation as 'the guy who does X', and you've got a bunch of people vouching for you being good at doing it remotely, I think you'll be able to get remote contracting gigs from anywhere and make this work. Effectively you'll end up pretty much exactly like your question asked, but via an indirect route.
I also think this will get slowy easier over time. I've seen an increasing number of 'fully remote' jobs advertised, including by startups paying in USD. Mix that with the cost of living in say Gore and you're going to save very fast.