Not Putting in 2nd Pilar.

[seeking456]

Hello all

I will be switching my job soon. Normally when switching my job I would take all the capital of my current "Pensionskasse" to the one of my new employer.

My question now is: can I instead of sending the money to the new Pensionskasse, invest it in the VIAC Freizügigkeit? I guess the returns on this would be significantly higher than the returns of a Pensionskasse.

Is it mandatory to put all the money to your current employers PK?

Edit:

in the first half of this video exactly this is talked about.

 

[sheep4christ]

@sallyalder This is actually an interesting piece of advice - however, would the pension fund be OK to send the obligatory / surobligatory parts to 2 separate accounts?

Maybe a better chance is to move everything to VIAC and then ask VIAC to only move the obligatory part to the new pension fund. But again, I am unsure whether they would be OK with that either.

Another option is simply to send to VIAC and never send to the new pension fund. They might send you reminders and bother you but AFAIK they can’t really enforce this.

Only watchout would be if the new pension fund is directly managed by the new employer - then it might not reflect well at work if you do not move it there. it is the case with some big employers like Nestle that they have their own pension fund for employees.

 

[sallyalder]

@sheep4christ Yes you have to hope the PK agrees to that split. At minimum they have to agree to send 50/50 to both accounts.

And no, once in a Freizügigkeitskonto, it cannot be split anymore.

Yes, you can also keep all funds at Viac.

It‘s not the intention of the Gesetzgeber, and the benefits (including insurance) from the PK might be lower with less funds deposited.
But in my opinion it makes no sense to have the Überobligatorium in the PK as the long term performance is by a big margin too low.

 

[seeking456]

@sheep4christ A bit late.

I checked with my PK. They do split the two parts to two separate accounts. I will for now put my money to Viac and let it sit there for a while. I think this little trick can make me thousands over the years.

 

[asdfkasdf]

@sallyalder

while your PK goes to 45% max.

and then sends 90% of the returns to a retiree that locked in a juicy Umwandlungssatz, while you get the mandatory 1% return (nominal btw, in real terms PKs are eroding your savings.)

 

[sallyalder]

@asdfkasdf Yes, you get 1.25%, but only on the Obligatorium…

 

[megan89]

@sallyalder How would you get access to the account so that you can invest it yourself?

 

[sallyalder]

@megan89 Open the account at Viac or Finpension. Access through website.

Your assets have to be invested BVG-konform. The provider ensures this. You cannot pick single stocks for example; and you have to diversify into several funds, but you can go up to almost 100% stocks with low fees.

 

[seeking456]

@sallyalder Thank you for this reply. I guess if i should decide to not get that money payed out at my retirement, this would drasticly lower my payout? In theorie I could still transfer that money to the PK at the age of 60 or so.

 

[redruthie7889]

@seeking456

that money paid out at

FTFY.

Although payed exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:

• Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. The deck is yet to be payed.
• Payed out when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. The rope is payed out! You can pull now.

Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.

Beep, boop, I'm a bot

 

[am29]

@sallyalder Why would you send the obligatory part when you can invest yourself not only the surobligaotory but also the obligatory ?

 

[sallyalder]

@am29 One reason could be to send something, and then send the Obligatorium because the Umwandlungssatz and the interest rate are higher.

 

[virtualhope]

@seeking456 Mandatory yes, but from what I've heard it's not really checked.

Even Beobachter says so (https://www.beobachter.ch/geld/pensionskasse/wohin-mit-dem-pk-guthaben-12800):

In der Praxis gibt es jedoch kaum eine Kontrolle und schon gar keine Sanktionen, sollten Sie das Kapital nicht in die neue Kasse überweisen.

 

[heal_the_sick]

@seeking456 You can but it is not legal. At the rate people are doing it I wonder if not they will start checking soon. We have to continue to give money to the poor poor boomers of course.

 

[seeking456]

@heal_the_sick Do you have any insight about the rate at which people are doing this?

 

[heal_the_sick]

@seeking456 No, but I am seeing more and more people talking about it.

 

[elliottp]

@seeking456 It’s a common practice. It’s illegal, but not punishable, so most people do it.

 

[johnprakashjha]

@elliottp Never heard that people actually do it

 

[elliottp]

@johnprakashjha Well, I don’t have exact stats.. But assuming that most high-income earners are rational people, why would they keep their retirement savings locked in the BVG with a 1% yield? That just doesn’t make any sense to me.

 

[am29]

@elliottp I'd say because the annuities you or your family receive from the PK in case of disability or death is capital dependent but I'm not sure.