Move now or later in career when JPY is better? Japanese-American considering FAANG opportunity

[gingermarie]

Posted on r/movingtojapan too but posting here too because $$$ is a big factor

Hi all,

I’m a dual citizen (Japan/USA) who is working in a major American city with very HCOL. I’m a woman in my mid-twenties and have been in my industry for 5 years now. I’m looking for something new and one of my career goals is to one day work in Japan / get to go to Japan often for work.

Recently I've been considered for an opportunity from a FAANG company for a marketing role. They’d help with my relocation (around 1M JPY if I choose lump-sum) and my TC (base/equity/sign-on bonus) is said to be around 15M JPY for my first year. They’d want me to move over the winter holidays. If I calculate the TC with the current terrible exchange rate, I’d be making around the same as I do now.

The job itself is very similar to what I do now, but it’d be slightly less exciting work. But it is a move in the right direction for me because I always wanted to work in tech and being able to use my background as a strength adds a lot of meaning to my work.

I’m very fluent (went to school for it growing up and have N1), ethnically Japanese, very close with my Japanese culture, and have lived in Japan before multiple times. I’ve also worked there as an intern before too at a Japanese company. I went back this year to see my extended family and felt a lot of emotions because Japan always feels like my 2nd home.

Everyone I have spoken to (both in Japan and the USA) has said I’m doing amazing in my career and have a lot of momentum in the states right now. And that Japan will always be there when the time is right.

Do you all think now with the current drop in Yen, I should wait a few years? My parents still live in the states but are planning to move back to Japan in 5~10 years since healthcare in the states is a nightmare for the elderly. I still want to be able to afford to travel back to the states and also travel abroad, and when the Yen is doing so poorly, it makes me worried about the feasibility of it.

I’m also a bit burnt out and started pursuing therapy recently. Maybe I should wait until I get my mental health in a better place before making such a big move?

At the same time though, I’m a big believer in taking risks in my 20s and maybe getting it out of my system now when I have no major life responsibilities is a good way of seeing it too. It’s not like my Japanese is improving living in the states either. I might be in my 30s by the time the yen gets better and I might have a partner by then too.

I’m still TBD on where I see myself living long-term, but I know I could make a lot more with my salary if I stay state-side. But with cost of living being so high in the states, I don’t see myself being able to afford living without roommates until much later, whereas in Japan, I could probably afford it much more easily.

From a lifestyle POV, I would also love to know what kind of life I could live with my TC. In the states, I live with roommates and am pretty frugal / smart with my $$. I live below my means and max out my Roth IRA + contribute to my 401k + HSA.

If you all were in my shoes, what would you do? Any opinions welcome… especially from a financial perspective.

Thank you

 

[twm]

@gingermarie Go. I moved to Japan during a bad exchange rate. The upside was that my comp was based in part on that rate conversion (130JPY to 1USD). So when the yen turned back to 105 I was doing much better in dollar terms than I had been in the US.

Plus, it's a good opportunity. You probably know salaries here are pretty crap. And so are raises in many companies. This sounds great. Sell your stuff, use your bonus to get started over here. Make sure you get airfare and at least 30 days in a serviced apartment or hotel so you can find a place. Fortunately, with a Japanese name and fluency it should not be a problem. For most people it is a PITA due to rental discrimination.

If anything, the only thing that makes me pause is this -

" my TC (base/equity/sign-on bonus) is said to be around 15M JPY for my first year. They’d want me to move over the winter holidays. If I calculate the TC with the current terrible exchange rate, I’d be making around the same as I do now"

Your sign on is a 1x event. So are you saying your annual comp will be less than what you are making now?

But either way, go, have fun, have an adventure!

 

[cdaysr]

@twm Even if the TC is less, making 15M in Japan is being rich whereas in the states its not. I don’t know the term but the "feeling" or buying power of that TC is much higher in Japan.

 

[twm]

@cdaysr It's just more of a negotiation point. As I said, go to Japan either way. Having said that while it might not be possible to get a better offer, you could make the point that to match current comp the annual comp of the offer should match the current annual comp before 1x bonus.

There is a lot of negotiation that can go into these offers. I have done 3 international transfers myself. Sometimes the salary budget is what it is for the role but you can negotiate other benefits. Just a tip. Still sounds like a great opp.

 

[reallybadsinner]

@twm Not super related, but how did you go about your international transfers? Did you transfer internationally in the same company or change companies? I'm considering living/working abroad in the few years and don't know the best/easiest way of making that happen.

 

[twm]

@reallybadsinner The most comfortable way to make it happen is through a company transfer. But that is also unpredictable because you can't control when -if ever- you will get a transfer and to the destination. E.g. my wife and I would like to get a transfer to the US, but she was offered (and turned down) Belgium.

In my case, I took a risk. I worked at a company for 18 months out of college. That company was expanding in APAC. I got impatient and quit and taught ESL in Japan. However...I also met up with the local team and got offered a small project to work on. So I made some relationships. Went back to the US after a year of ESL and got offered a promotion to go back to my previous employer. Then they transferred me to Japan 2 years later.

On another transfer, I jumped on a re-org that I heard about and chased the transfer. On a third transfer, I requested a repatriation/transfer back to the US. These request transfers give you the least bargaining power, but I wanted it at the time.

If you are a student, perhaps you study abroad if you have the means.

ESL is common way to get to Asian countries, but unfortunately it is generally speaking a dead end. I was fairly lucky with some timing.

 

[reallybadsinner]

@twm Thanks for the reply! I work in aerospace/engineering so I think that could allow me to move around a fair bit if I choose to. I am also considering getting a higher level of education (currently have a BS), but I don't know if it's truly worth it.

 

[mellie]

@gingermarie Nobody has any idea what the yen will do. Nobody. There is just as much chance you’ll kick yourself for not moving back when the fx rate was more favorable.

With a Y15 million salary and reasonable living expenses you could easily save half of that or more. The cost of living is drastically lower in Japan - ie, Tokyo is 50% cheaper than New York excluding rent, and Tokyo rents are 70% cheaper.

Y15 million is almost 3x the national average. You’ll be fine.

 

[tinks]

@gingermarie A ¥15M salary is very high in Japan, where the national average is somewhere around ¥5 million.

Unless you’re living extravagantly, you should still be able to save plenty on that salary.

 

[manishk012]

@tinks For reference, 15M¥ puts you in the top 5-6% of households income in Japan.

 

[heekun2017]

@manishk012 Only 4% of people in Japan make over 10m

 

[manishk012]

@heekun2017 I don't have data for single incomes but look at the second graph on this page https://www.jil.go.jp/kokunai/blt/backnumber/2023/08_09/kokunai_02.html and you'll see 11% of households make more than 10M income in a year.

Please do share if you have a better source.

I'll have to update my comment that 15M will put you in top 3.5% actually.

 

[jewelpet]

@gingermarie here is what I would say.

1. that is very high salary. I doubt you will find any better. keep in mind that living costs are different in US and Japan. 15m puts you well into 0.1% of highest earning people within Japan. Stop greeding for more. it is just a number beyond paying for your daily life.
2. keep priority on your health. no money is worth anything for you if you cant function anymore. I know many who have over worked themselves into hospital bed. And then has taken a long time, over half a year to be able to eat normally. My advise, if you swap job or not take a holiday. If you do swap your job, then make sure to have 1 month between you stop your old and you start you new. take time off and reset. forget work, you deserve to have time off.
3. where do you want to live? if new job allows you to live in location you want to, then go for it.
4. check the benefits. forget the salary, do you get good amount of paid holidays and can you actually utilize them without getting pressured to work more. again, priority should be on your health. human being cannot functiom if you work all the time. I would put big value for thinga like flexible working time and possible to do remote work. Those can improve your lifestyle a huge amount comparison to some extra salary.
5. often people who interview you, will be your line manager or connected to them. do you like talking with them? are they good people. Because if you have a good line manager they will take care of you and make you will be good. whereas bad line manager will try to push their mistakes on you and force more overtime. that can be difference of stress and quality of life.

 

[kimosabe2019]

@jewelpet It's high but not even close to top 0.1%. More like top 5% of households.

 

[jewelpet]

@kimosabe2019 on further research seems that you are correct 15m does not qualify for 0.1% of the top, that would be around 32m based on goverment records. However 15m should place you well within the 1%. either way, triple the average income is more than enough for comfortable lifestyle.

 

[phillev]

@gingermarie From a purely financial perspective, it seems like you would be better off in Japan. I’m hearing you say that you can’t afford to live alone and you can’t afford healthcare. In Japan, people making one third as much as you can afford both.

Also, the so-called “bad” exchange rate will mean that if you have any savings in dollars, it will be worth more when you move your money across to Japan.

Of course, it’s not really a financial decision, but rather a question of where you would like to live long term. Would you be happy living in Japan for the majority of your life? Or are you just experiencing some temporary stress and you think “escaping” to Japan will solve your problems? If it’s the latter, then I would say you need to work on yourself before making any major decisions.

 

[diamond7]

@gingermarie I moved to japan with faang some years ago and took a big pay cut when doing so (market competitive rates, bah). Specifically, the role paid around 120k USD and when I moved, my Japan salary was more like 8.6M JPY. Painful. Thankfully, things have improved since. Mainly it was more important to me to live somewhere I enjoyed than make a lot of money.

Fundamentally, I think that’s the question. Is it more important to you to make a bunch of money, or live somewhere you enjoy living? If you don’t mind/enjoy living where you’re at now, maybe saving more money makes sense.

From a lifestyle POV, I think given your background, the change in culture shouldn’t be too surprising? I don’t want to say your lifestyle will be hugely different, but I definitely think you’ll be doing better than frugal.

Oh, I just noticed that you’re a woman. That’s also a consideration, I think sexism is an issue still, especially in the workplace, and possibly even more so if you look Japanese. I don’t know if that’s something you’ve considered (or might be concerned about), but want to put it out there just in case.

Personally, I would do it, because I really enjoy living in japan (also as a dual Japanese citizen), but my experience is not necessarily reflective of the general case.

 

[surfer51]

@diamond7 I really want to point this part out as a woman and having lived in Japan. Honestly, it comes down to what is most important to you. There really are more career opportunities in the States. Most Americans I know who moved here to work for FAANG regret it because it stifled their career trajectory, especially for women. Unfortunately, being a woman here in Japan, you’ll likely get less opportunities. But it’s a trade off at the end of the day and what you value most.

 

[kervinjacque]

@gingermarie FAANG with Japanese labor laws is the best of all possible worlds lmao. 15M JPY will go real far over here, too.

Equity and bonus might be a little annoying - Japan taxes at time of vest, not time of sale, and everyone I know ends up having to save like half their bonus to deal with RSU taxes - but it's a good problem to have imo.

Rent is low compared to the states, and buying is not out of reach if you ever decide to especially as you're probably a citizen.

My only concern is whether you have outstanding financial liabilities or responsibilities in the States. Servicing those from Japan could get tricky, especially if the yen somehow gets even weaker.

If I were you though I'd totally do it.

 

[88delivered]

@kervinjacque

FAANG with Japanese labor laws is the best of all possible worlds lmao.

FYI, they can and still will lay off employees. It just moves a lot slower.