Mortgage renewal is coming. I work with a broker. Why am I being harangued by the bank the broker sealed the deal with for our first term?

[bladkins03]

ONTARIO

This is only my second term so I’ve never encountered this & I don’t understand it.

Got a mortgage with bank X in 2019. It’s a smaller bank. Used a broker, B. Happy enough with the broker B & bank X. (Regret not switching from variable to fixed in mid 2022, but who doesn’t.)

We’re doing a simple renewal. Not a refinance. I tried to sign the documents that were sent digitally through their app/link by B, but my phone sometimes doesn’t allow for external links or my IP gets flagged & I can’t access a website. No big deal. I asked B to have someone from tech support give me a call & he can hopefully troubleshoot the issue with me & I’ll sign through their app.

Someone from X contacts me via email & I assume it’s for my tech issue so I set up a phone app. During this phone app, all this ‘mortgage specialist’ MS does is talk about my contract. I’m confused. I have no issues or questions about my contract. I just need help with my phone. MS doesn’t know how to help with that, but sends over the agreement (an agreement I already have?), giving me the impression it’s the same agreement, but a lot of those links expire so again, no big deal.

She keeps asking me to sign. I’m like I can’t fucking sign shit. The app literally doesn’t allow me to access the digital fingerprint or the initials. So I tell her, I’ll just contact B & go sign in person because it’s no one’s fault my phone has random setting I don’t know how to troubleshoot. It worked & was available for my husband, but not for me & I couldn’t use his phone bevause it wouldn’t let us ‘switch users’ depending on who was signing. Again, no big deal. From my understanding the agreement is still with X, I haven’t switched banks.

I call B. He has no idea who this MS is, but says sometimes a bank will send an MS out to contact clients who are close to their renewal. Ok. No big deal. Everyone wants to sign everyone. B tells me I can tell MS im working with a broker or to just ghost. I ghost bevause I have no desire to get involved here.

MS keeps calling & emailing me. I finally tell her that I’m all good & im working with B. Sorry for any confusion. Goodbye.

Now MS is asking for B’s contact information so they can ‘all stay in the loop,’ & I’m like WTF? What am I missing about this weird threesome? Why is this MS even in said loop?

All I’ve officially signed in person is a fixed rate hold. My maturity date isn’t until mid-February & if rates go down (which they have), I get new updated agreements & that’s that. When it comes time to actually sign, if I want to accept the new fixed rates I can or stay variable.

Can someone explain what’s happening here? Do I need to find new people to work with? Am I being taken advantage of or is this just how the industry works?

 

[golfmaw]

@bladkins03 Brokers make money when you switch. They don't make anything if you renew with the same bank.

Usually you can get a better deal by just staying. And you don't need to do a new application. Broker is trying to get paid twice.

 

[bladkins03]

@golfmaw Would it be in my best interest to try & work with this MS from the same bank as well then? Is it my broker being shady?

 

[klf45]

@golfmaw

Usually you can get a better deal by just staying.

youll actually be surprised, lenders arent generally competitive for renewals, especially banks, they like new money, when borrowers renew, thats not new money, so their rates arent competitive

this is why people who have had a mortgage for a while always switch lenders for interest savings

 

[jaxxi]

@bladkins03 We are with an X and we have a B and and we are also renewing along the same timeline and have experienced none of this. I'm surprised B wants you to stay at X, though, I thought they only made money if you switched.

 

[shaebug]

@jaxxi Work for a Mortgage Brokerage.

Brokers do in fact make money on direct lender renewals and can often negotiate the renewal rate down on behalf of the clients.

 

[bladkins03]

@jaxxi I’m not quite sure how brokers get paid, TBH. Are they incentivized if we switch banks? How DO brokers get paid.

I’m just so confused on this process.

 

[swilson1]

@bladkins03 Mortgage brokers can literally give you a lower rate if they decide to take less commission / "buy down" your rate. Not sure why they would, but super weird model.

 

[bladkins03]

@swilson1 I do know the guy from back in the day, but I don't think he likes me enough to do me a solid like that, lol.

I'm just super confused about the 3-way interaction & how I should approach each party to protect myself.

 

[wangari]

@bladkins03 Yes, they get paid again if you switch lenders. Usually they don’t get anything on a renewal.

 

[bladkins03]

@wangari Interesting. I didn't know this. I wasn't paying much attention to the bank on offer during the rate hold because all I think I did was hold onto the worst case scenario rate that was available at the time, but it's since gone down.

I'll confirm if it was the same bank & update this in case anyone else is interested in the information.

 

[estrahs]

@bladkins03 They get paid on new money. Renewal without refinance makes them no more commission but moving to new bank is new money to the new bank so they get paid. Broker may want to simply stay in loop to ensure you don't have issues....Maybe they just care. OR maybe there is now some incentive bonus if they ensure a smooth renewal, and not suggesting a refinance with a new bank...never actually heard of this but I could see a backdoor deal opportunity and if I were a broker (i am, but not mortgages), I'd be all over this.

 

[bladkins03]

@estrahs Now that I know he doesn't get paid if we do a basic renewal with the same bank, ya, I'm curious as to why he cares about us or has any incentive to even call me back, lol. It's not even a big mortgage so I imagine there are far more tempting customers out there for him to work with. Who knows, maybe he's a nice guy who cares, lol. OR maybe you're right & maybe banks have done some sort of backdoor deal. I'm just trying to figure out if I'm in good hands.

 

[estrahs]

@bladkins03 If he's anything like me, I'd keep in contact with you and try to be helpful or ensure it's smooth just so you remember that "I'm your guy"....that's how you keep people coming back, even if it's every 5 or 10 years...or maybe there's something weird going on!

 

[bladkins03]

@estrahs That's fair. In a world of hustlers & just terrible people it's refreshing to see that hey maybe i Just found a broker who's a decent dude & likes to share his knowledge freely. I'll hold onto that hope. Do you mind if I contact you personally closer to my maturity?

 

[estrahs]

@bladkins03 Anytime. I'm a broker, but NOT a mortgage broker, but I've been thru renewals and certainly keep in contact with my own mortgage broker (used on several properties and renewals etc.). I would personally lock myself in 30days before that maturity as I am risk adverse and want to ensure the deal is done and move on. But lots can change with Interest bw now and jan/Feb so u never know!

 

[christianbriantrinity]

@bladkins03 That’s normal AFAIK. The MS likely has no idea your mortgage was done through a broker(it doesn’t show on most systems). The bank just assigned them a list of clients with mortgages coming up for renewal. MS have goals and earn commission for renewals. Similar to your broker.

My uneducated guess is that maybe MS wants to contact your broker to see if their rates are “acceptable”. I mean your brokers job is to find you the best rate and if bank isn’t offering your broker will look elsewhere and a mortgage comes out of the banks (and maybe MS book).

I think the best option is to keep working with your broker. Banks 99.9% do not care about you, your broker has at least a financial incentive to help you.

 

[mustardseedfaith]

@bladkins03 Hi there so sorry for the stress your experiencing hope my two cents as an Ontario Agent/Broker can help:

• All mortgage agents/broker get paid directly by the lender (unless you have to use an alternative or private lender)
• when it comes to helping you as a client with a straight renewal we as agents/brokers do not get paid anything (it is one of the big perks in my opinion in working with a good broker/agent who doesn’t treat you like a one and done transaction), and since your current agent/broker is working to get your renewal done it seems like they have your best interest at heart
• as for the mortgage specialist at the bank well they are employees for the bank so if they are being told to hunt you down and get you to sign their renewal (giving you no real negotiating power like what your agent/broker can do for you) —- side note getting the same person at the bank is harder than when your working with a broker/agent (this is our business and therefore we take a more long term approach to how we provide mortgage financing support)

So at the end of the day this is normal and having real good communication with your broker should help mitigate the confusion

P.S. Can I ask what app system they are using for you to sign the paper work I might be able to help

 

[bladkins03]

@mustardseedfaith I think I'm understanding better.

Everyone is just doing their job & trying to get paid, but my broker is less likely to make any money on us as we're doing a basic renewal.

My broker hasn't contacted me to tell me rates have gone down whereas the MS keeps calling me to tell me they are so I'm confused about who cares about me more, if at all, lol.

 

[mustardseedfaith]

@bladkins03 Well in this case it seems as though your broker isn’t being as helpful and the MS is currently in your corner if they are working to let you know rates are lowering so if I was in your shoes I would just say the rate you want and see what they say