Monthly Moderation Report – June/July 2021

kristhuy

New member
Apologies to anyone who was eagerly awaiting a June moderation report that never arrived. I ran out of time to prepare it, so I decided to combine June and July together into a single report.

Monthly Recap​


The sub added about 250 subscribed users per month during June and July, and was visited by around 5,500 unique users per month over the same period. On average there were just over 3 new posts and 35 new comments per day.

Rule Enforcement Actions​

  • I removed 4 posts and 4 comments for being obvious spam.
  • I removed 2 posts for consisting of merely a link to a video. We ask that users linking to videos provide an explanation of the content of the video and its relevance to the sub. The text content of the post should stand alone as a trigger for further discussion.
  • I removed 2 comments under rule 1 for attacking other users with the term “beta bitch”.
  • I banned 1 user for persistently posting spam comments after being asked to refrain.
  • @idontknow-Toiro removed 1 comment for being spam.
  • @djinadou removed 5 comments that were posted by bots, and banned all 5 bots (WikiSummarizerBot, StopRickRollBOT, answer-reddit-bot, Shakespeare-Bot, and FatFingerHelperBot).

Other Actions​

  • @idontknow-Toiro flaired 15 users, edited 7 flair templates, and made 29 wiki edits.
  • I updated the flair on 10 posts, flaired 4 users, edited 9 flair templates, and made 4 wiki edits.

Top Posts & Contributors​

  • The most upvoted post during June/July was @tricky’s link to their furusato nozei guide. @tricky will be offered an "OP of the Month" flair to wear until the next monthly moderation report.
  • The most commented-on post during June/July was @jen256-n’s post about investment options for US citizens. @jen256-n will have the chance to wear the “Premium Discussion Facilitator” flair.

Sub News​


As always, our moderation log is completely public and can be viewed via the links here. If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions regarding the moderation of this sub, please comment in this thread or send us a modmail.

At this time, there are two specific topics about which we welcome opinions and suggestions:

Using the sub to fact-check content hosted privately

In general, there is no problem with users linking to relevant information hosted outside the sub, even where the linked site is not an inherently reputable source. But several users have contacted me to suggest that we restrict or prohibit “homework request”-type posts (“please help me improve this thing I wrote”, etc.), especially when the linked material is being monetized in some way (affiliate links, etc.).

Those concerns were obviously triggered by @tricky’s recent series of posts. It’s worth noting that those posts were all heavily upvoted, and the links undoubtedly contained information that is relevant to the sub. That said, some users seem uncomfortable about the sub being explicitly used for the purposes of fact-checking privately-hosted content.

The mods are very open to feedback on this topic, so if you have thoughts about it, please comment in this thread or send us a modmail. (It may be more productive to focus on the general issue of fact-checking/homework-requests and whether any new rules/clarifications are needed, rather than @tricky’s posts in particular.)

Promoting illegal behavior

As some users will know from previous discussions, I am generally averse to removing content that recommends or suggests actions that appear to be illegal. First, this is because I believe that subreddits like ours work best when bad ideas are able to be openly debated and incorrect assertions are able to be openly corrected. Second, it is because I believe that it’s impractical to expect mods to differentiate between what is legal and what is illegal. Basically, I trust that the community can successfully police itself (via comments, posts, and votes) with respect to the issue of what is legal and what is illegal.

That said, the sub is obliged to comply with reddit’s content policy, which does contain some limitations relating to legality (e.g., it prohibits the solicitation of transactions involving fraudulent services or falsified documents). And users have recently expressed concerns to me about the promotion of structuring in this thread from last week as well as the promotion of tax evasion in this thread from yesterday.

I’m going to be upfront about having no desire whatsoever to implement a blanket rule along the lines of “don’t recommend illegal things”. However, I’m curious whether anyone has any ideas regarding a more nuanced rule that would be capable of satisfying the users who don’t want to see illegal activities excessively promoted, without jeopardizing users’ freedom to openly debate bad ideas or correct incorrect assertions, and without putting an impractical decision-making burden on the mods. Comments in this thread and/or via modmail are most welcome.
 
@kristhuy Regarding "Using the sub to fact-check content hosted privately," I think the discussion about whether:
  • the content is being promoted by a third party or self-promoted
  • the content is monetized or not
are not particularly good criteria from which to judge if the content is relevant or applicable for /r/JapanFinance. I would prefer to judge the content itself--is it good/interesting/useful/on-topic for the readers of /r/JapanFinance.
 
@mototothemax I'm not sure I agree.

On the one hand, yes, a core criterion is: is any content or link relevant to the scope of JapanFinance. On the other hand, is JapanFinance just an adjunct to other people's blogs?

There's a wiki for relevant content, so then the question regarding whether or not it's appropriate for users to make their own websites and ask us to check them seems deeply relevant. Rather than any user monetizing the work of others, should they instead be directed to improve the wiki?

That being said, I'm not sure I'm opposed to letting people ask "can you look at my blog post I've monetized". As long as the information itself is free, then it seems to not be a big deal and up to anyone whether they want to look through that and help that individual or not.
 
@kristhuy Thank you stark for your efforts and this recap.

I really look forward to hear from the community on the two points you raised and hope we can find a good balance. Simply talking about it openly is already a good step.

I also want to thank all who actively participate thought comments, posts, votes, to make this sub a welcoming and open place.

edit : lots of healthy, open and polite debate happening in the thread - I could not ask for more, thank you.
 
@kristhuy Thanks for the recap and keeping the subreddit clean. Overall, moderators are doing terrific job and keeping very high quality of the subreddit.

Recently, I noticed repeating nature of questions being posted on topics already covered in wiki and previous posts. Alerting posters to read the wiki and search subreddit before writing a new post might be a good idea.

Using the sub to fact-check content hosted privately

If these type of posts are not controlled, it will lead to subreddit being filled with blog spam and YouTube spam. IMO, If the OP of such posts is not active participant in subreddit (outside the post they made) then they should be discouraged.

Promoting illegal behavior

Do any of the users, who reported potential illegal behavior, have legal or law expertise/background? If not, then it is just their opinion and interpretation. Legality of something is decided by courts and law agencies, not by average joe.

I have noticed this general trend of confusing “unethical” with “illegal” in Japanese related subreddits. Something unethical doesn’t makes it illegal.
 
@faithisking Just want to add a consideration here that I am, in fact, relatively active in this sub, however use a throwaway account seeing as the topic involves personal finance.

Therefore, do not agree with the condition that “If the OP of such posts is not active participant in subreddit” since it has no bearing on the quality of content posted.

If the OP posts a link and then cease further activity including engaging with comments within the posts, I think there is a case to be made.
 
@tricky We can agree to disagree. If it was /@kristhuy who is monetizing the content, I have no issue. He deserves to monetize (and he should) considering how much effort and time he puts in helping others as well as managing the subreddit. If you and him are not the same person, sorry to say you are just leeching of the good work of contributors and moderators of this subreddit.
 
@tricky
Just want to add a consideration here that I am, in fact, relatively active in this sub, however use a throwaway account seeing as the topic involves personal finance.

Do you mean that you actively use this ( @tricky ) account as a throwaway to promote your blog while being quite active using another? Or do you mean when you are active you do so via a throw away? (Sorry, just curious as to why, given as you are basically identifying yourself to all of Reddit... sorry if this is off topic)
 
@kristhuy Thank you for the flair!

fact-checking

My main purpose for my posts is to share the information I researched. As you can probably tell from the guide, it takes me a lot of time to put it together.

I am happy to refrain from requesting fact-checking if that is the wish of the sub, but I think it opens up discussions and correcting any errors will be beneficial for those reading it since mistakes will cause confusion.

I am also of the understanding that commentors will naturally point out mistakes, which is why I am not sure what the issue is.

I am also of the opinion that since it is entirely voluntary and one can simply not contribute should they disagree.

If suddenly, we get an influx of finance writers asking for fact-checking on a daily basis (which I believe is the presupposition of your concerns), I am happy to reconsider my position, but the reason I started writing the guides was because there aren't enough thorough content out there so that doesn't seem likely to happen too soon.

Anyway, I am happy to respect the decision that the sub comes to.

Promoting illegal behavior

I think there is a difference between promoting and enquiring. While both are ill-advised, the former is less desirable. However, I see the comments to such posts are push back and advice to refrain from such behavior. This is good reference for who those considering how far they can "test the system”.

However, if it's an active discussion about how to do something illegal, then I think that crosses the line and posts can be locked.
 
@tricky Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

the reason I started writing the guides was because there aren't enough thorough content out there

This makes sense, but can I ask whether you considered contributing to the sub's wiki instead of hosting the guides privately?

If you want to take a collaborative approach to content creation (which makes sense to me, given that you seem to be working with largely secondary sources), then I think the sub's wiki is the right place for that kind of collaboration to occur.

@idontknow-Toiro and I (and a few others) have put enormous amounts of time into the wiki (though there is admittedly still lots to do and it is a neverending process of improvement). And while we could have put that info on a privately-hosted site instead, we think that this kind of information should be gathered collaboratively and hosted somewhere with some level of communal control/transparency.

Of course, publishing English-language guides privately can still be very useful, but when the guides don't tend to cite primary sources and seem to rely on significant collaboration for improvement/accuracy, it kind of feels like a privatization of content that belongs in the wiki, if you know what I mean? (If they were more polished and cited primary sources, the equation would be very different.)

Anyway, these are just thoughts I have when I don't have my mod hat on. With my mod hat on, I'm not particularly bothered by your posts, though I'm eager to hear the community's thoughts.
 
@kristhuy Reddit Wikis do not at all show up in Google or other search engines. While the wiki is nice as a community thing, there are many english speakers in Japan who do not use Reddit. Thus personally, I think alexkwa's posts main value is not to those of us here but to the broader english community.

Personally Stark, if you or JBanker ever wrote a "info dump of advice for living in japan site" I would expect it to be a great help. Reddit, Diggit, Facebook, or etc are not safe places long term for important information. Who knows when Reddit will just up and delete wikis or break them in some horrible manner.
 
@subaru17
there are many english speakers in Japan who do not use Reddit

While this is true, I think the preferable solution is to simply recommend that such people take a look at r/JapanFinance and, if they like what they see, start using reddit :)

To my mind, RetireJapan is a great example of how a privately hosted website can reference reddit content without attempting to replicate or integrate it. @nicoleb07 occasionally references this sub and discusses the content that appears here, but it's generally in a "check this out" kind of way, which I think is the ideal way for reddit content to reach a non-reddit audience.

Reddit, Diggit, Facebook, or etc are not safe places long term for important information.

I understand where you're coming from, but tbh if I didn't believe reddit was a safe place for my posts and wiki entries long-term, then I wouldn't be here. I'm here in large part because I do believe reddit is the best place for me to engage with others in a way that I enjoy while also archiving the content that I want archived. You may call me naïve (or possibly just lazy lol), but at least believe me that I've considered the alternatives and have decided that reddit is the platform that is the best fit for me and the type of content that I like to produce/engage with.
 

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