Kuvera has turned into a shitshow

[1yhwh1yhwh1]

@karenhampton Hi.

Agreed on most points except the error seems to be at the payment gateway's end in providing a confirmation to the exchange. Kuvera deliberately doesn't involve itself in the payment flow at all to reduce the number of hops in the flow of funds. The redirection from BSEStarMF to Kuvera does not actually impact the flow of funds at all and is a step post the funds confirmation.

We do however constantly monitor such occurrences/outages and notify the respective counterparties to expedite a fix. As someone pointed out, there was some room to fix these later earlier (in the form of provisional allotment) but the new regulations make this very hard if not impossible.

Also, our capability to respond to users and to provide them an accurate picture is dependent in part on third parties like the exchange, fund houses and payment gateway. Hence we may take a day or two to check and get back.

Fact of the matter is that unfortunately our (India's) payment systems are taking longer to adapt to the new guidelines and also to heavy volumes. Changes required to cater to the realization based NAV era were anticipated and factored in but clearly some were not and the infrastructure will take some time to adapt.

Don't know if using the AMC or the CAMs website will have better outcomes in such scenarios but my guess is such downtimes will impact all equally.

Finally, we are not one to pass the buck and will make sure that we get to the bottom of this.

We are expecting some under the hood changes shortly (say 2-3 weeks) at our transaction partners' end that should reduce such outages significantly.

Hope some of this makes sense.

 

[1yhwh1yhwh1]

An update on the above:

• On 26/Feb, there was a technical issue at BSEStarMF. our exchange transaction partner and the payment aggregator used by them:
  
  
  https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365747109408858112
• Due to above payment confirmations for some orders placed before cut-off for 26/Feb were not processed in time. Under the realization based NAV regime, the allotment date for these orders may be impacted.
• For context, BSEStarMF uses one of the largest payment aggregators(BillDesk) for MF payments processing and the same payment aggregator is used by most fund houses as well.
  
• Unfortunately, this error has affected investors across the board. We have identified all impacted orders and will be reaching out over email to our users with timestamps of order placed and funds received.
• We are working with BSEStarMF and AMCs to explore all remedies possible and will keep the above investors updated.
  
• In addition, we are working with BSEStarMF to identify root cause and to streamline the existing process further to avoid recurrences.

 

[resjudicata]

@1yhwh1yhwh1 Dear Sir,

In my case 2 funds were from same amc, 1 fund ordered at 1.20pm was processed and the one at 1.16pm wasn't. The amounts of both funds was same too. The amc is saying to talk to you guys. Your cs is saying that they are taking up the matter with the respective department. If both funds were approved on Friday then why was the allotment date changed for one fund the next day without intimating the customer?

 

[spiderwebb21]

@1yhwh1yhwh1 I'm sorry to say but this recent change of rules has been a complete nightmare for the investors (and for you as well I guess). My father did a couple of transactions at 12pm on the 22nd, he used net banking via hdfc, and he got 23rd's NAV. He did another two transactions on 23rd at 2pm via the same route (hdfc net banking) and got 23rd's NAV. So basically on all four transactions (2 done on the 22nd at 12pm and 2 done on the 23rd at 2pm), he got the NAV for the 23rd. Why? No idea! Customer service (despite your customer service being usually quite good) had no answers.

Not just that, all SIP amounts get deducted on the same day at 11am from the bank accounts, but the NAV that you get is of the next day. Why? You should deduct the amounts on the next day as well then.

In a nutshell, this is a complete shitshow. Please create a lot of noise around this issue with the regulators if possible.

 

[mefondo04]

@1yhwh1yhwh1 @1yhwh1yhwh1 I have faced this exact issue with lumpsum on Fri as did plenty of other users.

The redirection from BSEStarMF to Kuvera does not actually impact the flow of funds at all

If this is the case, why is the NAV showing as 1 Mar. Do look into this issue and rectify for users.

 

[karenhampton]

@1yhwh1yhwh1 Thank you for responding. I really don't want to give up on your services but I'm being forced to look into alternatives given the circumstances.

I would request you to look into this issue since you're already aware of it. Let's face it, no one can guarantee that I won't face a transaction failure some other day. But resolution for such issues should be simple, straightforward and unambiguous at the investor's end and shouldn't involve me having to call you out on this. I hate doing this to a company which has helped me so much with transaction failures in the past.

The reason I think Kuvera has misled me is because the NAV allocation date was being shown as 26th February till today morning (in payment confirmed state). However later in the day, it suddenly changed to March 1 (also in payment confirmed state). Other users have also reported this in the thread (please check).

Finally, I do hope you will take up the issue with the AMCs/BSE Star/other intermediaries so that NAV is allocated on the date of transaction. Please understand that I'm not worried about just this particular transaction but your resolution mechanism for future transactions as well in such cases of failures. If your response in this case is not satisfactory (NAV is not allocated for February 26), I will have no option but to explore CAMS/AMC websites, as a logical second best but fuss-free alternative.

I do hope to see a positive resolution on this. Thank you for helping.

 

[resjudicata]

@karenhampton

The reason I think Kuvera has misled me is because the NAV allocation date was being shown as 26th February till today morning (in payment confirmed state). However later in the day, it suddenly changed to March 1 (also in payment confirmed state). Other users have also reported this in the thread (please check).

+1

 

[sunshinehally]

@1yhwh1yhwh1 Same happened with two of my transactions on 26 Feb. Kuvera kept on showing 26 Feb as the NAV day until today. Now it shows 1 March as the NAV date. Really bad customer experience.

> Finally, we are not one to pass the buck and will make sure that we get to the bottom of this.

> We do however constantly monitor such occurrences/outages and notify the respective counterparties to expedite a fix.

I am not buying this. Do you even notify your customers about these occurrences?

Step 1 will be to be proactive about this and inform customer whenever this happens. At the very least, customer shouldn't have to find this out on their own and then reach out to your team and then wait for your reply.

Step 2 would be to inform customers when they are making the transactions if you're seeing failure rates at your transaction partners' end.

 

[strestlessheart333]

@1yhwh1yhwh1 Off-topic but also your OTP verification fails for selling Gold on your platform, I have raised the issue however its been 14days and still no resolution has taken place.

 

[resjudicata]

@1yhwh1yhwh1 Dear Sir,

In my case 2 funds were from same amc, 1 fund ordered at 1.20pm was processed and the one at 1.16pm wasn't. The amounts of both funds was same too. The amc is saying to talk to you guys. Your cs is saying that they are taking up the matter with the respective department. If both funds were approved on Friday then why was the allotment date changed for one fund the next day without intimating the customer?

 

[scarlette]

@karenhampton Not an expert, but I think even if the transaction didn't have any issue and went smoothly, still you wouldn't be guaranteed to have got the NAV of 26th.
Money hitting the AMC's account is not in our hands, it could even take a day or 2.

If you are so particular about getting the NAV of the same day, why don't you park the money in a liquid fund of the same AMC where you have the equity fund, and then just trigger a simple switch transaction from liquid to equity when you feel that you want to "take the advantage of the market correction".

I know you must be feeling enraged, but you facing only this incident just once (because you haven't given any past bad experience details) doesn't make Kuvera a shitshow at all.

 

[karenhampton]

@scarlette

Money hitting the AMC's account is not in our hands, it could even take a day or 2.

True. But if you're doing the transaction through the AMC's website, the number of intermediaries you have to deal with, is substantially reduced. Therefore problem resolution becomes simpler and more direct (not necessarily easier).

If you are so particular about getting the NAV of the same day, why don't you park the money in a liquid fund of the same AMC where you have the equity fund, and then just trigger a simple switch transaction from liquid to equity when you feel that you want to "take the advantage of the market correction".

Good idea. I'll look into it. Although again, I'm not sure how this plays out. A complicated transaction scares me, not because it's complicated but because raising issues become difficult in case of failures.

I know you must be feeling enraged, but you facing only this incident just once (because you haven't given any past bad experience details) doesn't make Kuvera a shitshow at all.

This needs explaining. Although I alluded to it in the post, it's probably best to explain the situation in detail here.

Instances like these have happened to me many times in the past with Kuvera. Only thing was, the NAV always used to be allocated on the day of the transaction regardless.

What has changed is the SEBI circular which mandates that all transactions from February 1, 2021 will be allocated the day's NAV only if it reaches the AMC on that day. This means if a transaction fails and your broker isn't on your side fighting with the AMC, you won't get the day's NAV. Period.

With a transaction done on the AMC's website, you have multiple points to prove your case about the transaction being done on a particular day. With a broker/advisory website, it's difficult to raise the issue with the AMC.

I hope I'm able to clarify my point.

 

[crixus123]

@scarlette

If you are so particular about getting the NAV of the same day, why don't you park the money in a liquid fund of the same AMC where you have the equity fund, and then just trigger a simple switch transaction from liquid to equity when you feel that you want to "take the advantage of the market correction".

This won't work. Liquid fund redemption won't happen same day, it'd take 1 working day for money to be available, so that it can be invested in the equity fund.

Refer to this doc, says the same thing about timeline.

 

[karenhampton]

@crixus123 Thank you. It seems a lot of people are not aware of the new regulations regarding amount realisation for NAV allocation and its implications. Even I was under the impression that the new regulations would only apply to SIP investors.

 

[crixus123]

@karenhampton Actually, this particular timeline for Liquid fund / Overnight fund to Equity fund switch transaction, has been around since before.

What used to happen, and doesn't happen anymore; is if you switch from one equity fund to another, within same AMC; it used be same-day switch. Now it doesn't happen anymore (takes 3 working days).

 

[karenhampton]

@crixus123 Oh okay got it. Thanks for the information

 

[scarlette]

@crixus123 I stand corrected. Thank you.
So switching from the AMC website it the ideal solution, I guess.

 

[resjudicata]

@scarlette

Not an expert, but I think even if the transaction didn't have any issue and went smoothly, still you wouldn't be guaranteed to have got the NAV of 26th. Money hitting the AMC's account is not in our hands, it could even take a day or 2.

They have clearly mentioned that for lumpsum orders, if paid via net banking of the direct banks, you will get T day's nav.

 

[karenhampton]

@resjudicata Yes and after three years of using Kuvera I can attest to that. I always get NAV allocated on the day of the transaction. Even in case of payment failures like this one (which I have experienced many times in the past to the point where I stopped worrying about them), I always used to be allocated the day's NAV post reconciliation.

 

[resjudicata]

@karenhampton What really amazes me is that I got same day's nav for half of the funds and like next week for the rest. Out of 2 funds from the same amc, 1 got yesterday's nav and the other next week's. This sucls.

Did Kuvera tell you that this is bsestarmf's fault? Did all your payments get approved yesterday on Kuvera? Mine did but still this crap. They mentioned yesterday's nav for all yesterday but changed it to next week today.