Kids

[resjudicata]

@cecjolie What about the child? Growing up in poverty is traumatizing

 

[cecjolie]

@resjudicata So only wealthy people deserve the joy of being parents? That’s why I asked how bad their finances were. There’s a difference between being less wealthy and being heavily impoverished. Only OP & her partner truly know the state of things & their capabilities & can make that decision for themselves.

Edit/grammar

 

[notthereyet]

@cecjolie I don’t think they were saying only wealthy should have children. But it’s a fine line between you wanting a kid at all costs, or you can’t afford a kid at all, and that kid has a miserable existence.

 

[cecjolie]

@notthereyet I absolutely agree it’s a fine line which is why I listed things I did in my original comment. “There’s a difference between being less wealthy and being heavily impoverished.” Very different situations.

 

[resjudicata]

@cecjolie I think we just fundamentally disagree on what it means to have kids. Most people would agree with your opinion that we "deserve kids" or the joy they bring and shouldn't have to "deny ourselves the right" of having them. That language just makes me cringe because it sounds like you're talking about an object or a pet, and not a full blown human that will have to eke out their own existence and more than likely bury you when you pass.

People forget there's another human being on the other side of the equation; a human being that you're putting a ton of pressure on to be the sole catalyst for your personal happiness and self-actualization. If you used the same language like 'need' and 'deserve' when talking about a romantic partner, that would be pretty much universally considered unhealthy and toxic.

I just feel like you have to be honest with yourself about the raw deal your potential child would be getting by being born now. Climate change, wealth disparity, and gun violence seem to be only getting exponentially worse every year. You get to cross something off of your vision board list but what does your child get out of this? What kind of world will they inherit?

 

[cecjolie]

@resjudicata But aren’t all children inheriting the same world? Rather they come from rich families, poor families, or anywhere in between? If that’s your logic, then you think no one should have children and the population should just die out? Because that’s another thing entirely.

 

[ange_redrobin]

@cecjolie I wasn’t in a bad position when I had my kiddo, but I spent very little for the first 5-6 years on the kid.

I did a lot of what you mentioned, because they grow fast, things get dirty, they don’t care about name brands, etc.

She’s 9 now. We’ve had a few rough patches along the way (husband got injured + disabled, moved, car wrecks, etc). Shit happens.

I’m still not in the BEST financial place now due to the above rough spots but I bought a condo this past summer. Kid isn’t missing out on anything, there’s tons of programs that are affordable & companies can work with you, there’s financial docs you can fill out for adjusted fees to you (such as ymca membership, etc) and libraries offer tons of free stuff, etc.

Babies / toddlers don’t have to be expensive.

 

[porcelainrose]

@ange_redrobin But babies/toddlers grow up. And they are expensive.

 

[anavah]

@porcelainrose People miss that one of the biggest costs of having a child isn’t shit like nappies and baby food and toys and clothes and baby groups. It’s childcare. It’s the cost of childcare, and the ding your income takes if you take maternity leave or reduce your hours to care for your child or keep working and need to fund childcare. I find all these ‘babies can be cheap! They can sleep in a drawer! They’re entertained with a bottle filled with dry rice for a rattle!’ comments so disingenuous frankly. Sure, you can scrimp through clothes and toys. But fucking childcare, man. Anyone who says kids aren’t expensive has had one hell of a privileged ride and must have had oodles of free childcare from family or the financial resources to give up work or easily afford childcare.

 

[ange_redrobin]

@anavah This isn’t exactly true, at least in my situation. Of course, yes, there are many that are as you say but unfortunately, I’ve had to make due with making having my kid fairly cheap.

I have no village. It’s me, kiddo and disabled husband. The only times I’ve slept away from my kid was when I’ve been hospitalized & she stayed home with dad. I’ve never paid for childcare or had a baby sitter or anything else of that nature. I would have never been able to afford it anyway, so I found ways around it. We didn’t win preschool lottery so she never went.

I am in no way privileged. Sure, I got lucky and found myself a contract gig I could work from home since she was born but that was a niche market that I’ve been into since before I became an adult - and it wasn’t without sacrifices. I worked when baby was asleep, I worked when it was feeding time at night, I worked whenever I could.

I still don’t spend a lot of money of her though. I don’t keep up with the jones and I very rarely buy new. I suppose, yes, I’ve been lucky she’s had great health and we haven’t had issues with that. My health, on the other hand, is absolutely horrid - botched csection lead to a hysterectomy, which lead to another serious medical disorder, I developed seizures from a car accident, I could go on further with my shitty genetics which require me to be on about 10+ medications.

We build forts (still, she’s 9) out of cardboard boxes and duck tape. I craft and make things & Halloween costumes out of old baby clothes & blankets, sheets, thrifted items, etc. I buy clothes off eBay and threadUp and resell them when need new clothes. School supplies I buy year before after sales, etc.

Maybe I am lucky or privileged. I certainly don’t feel that way, I work 50+ hours/wk, 2 jobs, 3 sometimes when needed if a car needs a random repair or whatever.

You can make things affordable. It just a lot of work and trying and failing and trying some more.

You make do with what you have. And find ways to make it work.

 

[diasgang4]

@anavah It just sucks that mortgage rates are out of control, not to mention student loan debt equal to my first mortgage in 1986. Rents in sketchy areas are hovering around $1400 a month for one bedroom.
If our government continues being short sighted, there will be no workers left to feed the Capitalism machine. Too damn expensive. How dare the people seek support in some form from their government! All they care about is amassing wealth and getting perpetually re-elected. And in case someone is thinking this is only on one side of the aisle...I promise it's not.

 

[omnifam]

@perpetuah Has he told you what needs to happen in order for you to start trying? I don't know when is kind of a stressful answer when your body says right now. I'd have several more talks until you figure out what it would take for him to feel comfortable trying. You want him fully aware this could be your last chance. Also you're trying... that can take awhile.

 

[diasgang4]

@perpetuah My heart goes out to you. Things are SO different than 30 years ago. My daughter(37) has one child and will not have another. Reason? Daycare cost is 1800 a month at newborn and is now at $1400 a month for her 4 y/o. She is college educated and earns about 60k a year, a bit more than her husband. Who can afford a family? It breaks my heart that someone who would love a child cannot afford one. I am sorry and sincerely hope this works out for you.

 

[multiplied]

@perpetuah Would you or your husband consider looking for higher paying work?

 

[resjudicata]

@multiplied Maybe one of them can get promoted, I’d have a talk for a salary raise

 

[whisperpoetry]

@perpetuah Whatever you do, your kids could/will cost more than you think. Don't bring someone who is dependant on you for EVERYTHING into this world if you can't keep yourself afloat. If you could provide for a kid financially why not adopt? There are millions of children that need a home.

 

[abbasdaughter57]

@whisperpoetry Isn’t adopting like, $50k?

 

[whisperpoetry]

@abbasdaughter57 I don't know because I'm finding different sources that range from 2,000-60k eitherway if you can't afford that you most likely aren't ready for a newborn. She won't be able to work unless she has some sort of maternity leave. What if her kid is born with come condition and is put in the NICU? Or they both get group-B strep? Or she needs a C-section? Google also says the cost for the FIRST year of a child can be anywhere from 13k-69k. Wide numbers that depends on many things. Do you have insurance to give birth? Are you going to use wic?

 

[abbasdaughter57]

@whisperpoetry I agree with you though, you HAVE to have good health insurance.

 

[whisperpoetry]

@abbasdaughter57 It's doable if you are able to get aid, have insurance, ect. But there are so many factors. Kids also don't just stop costing money. If you are in the US this is at least an 18 year commitment, and lifelong if you are decent.