Joint bank account

[nnhust]

I've been binge reading posts here and found that it's pretty common that folks here have joint account with their spouse.

When we opened ours on ZKB, we were told that joint account is problematic if it's the only one, because in case of death of one spouse, account is freezed until inheritance is resolved. So that's recommended to have also personal ones.

At least that's how I understood it.

We did power of attorney between us. Since I didn't have permit card yet, so that was easiest solution, plus we wanted it, just thought there's something better maybe.

And we have now a bunch of saving and current accounts, to manage our digital envelope budgeting system as I fondly call it. No tracking needed just awareness how much is left.

But now I wonder if what I've been told isn't quite right, since I saw some people say it's not freezed. Also wondering what we would gain or lose with having such account in addition to current setup, if someone knows?

He's currently only working one, but even when we were both working, all income is ours, and current system we have just means put budgeted amounts into each account and you can easily see how much is available until end of month.

We have revolut as completely private accounts for 'no questions asked free money for fun or whatever', however we'll also buy fun stuff from shopping budget, it's just then we agree on it.

I don't think joint account would bring anything useful that we don't already have solved, but I don't know, so would like to learn more about how that thing works?

Is it like one iban and one card, and if you want more, you have to make more accounts, or it's more like 'you two are entity called customer X' and you can open however many accounts bank allows for that customer?

Also, with power of attorney I can't rename his accounts, nor open/close them. I can just move money around (and it goes instantly), pay whatever. I think I can't increase daily limits either, only for my card. Or it's my account both cards probably.

We have cards for each other's account.

So, any differences from joint one?

 

[bod2411]

@nnhust

When we opened ours on ZKB, we were told that joint account is problematic if it's the only one, because in case of death of one spouse, account is freezed until inheritance is resolved. So that's recommended to have also personal ones

Yes that's true, that's the reason why everyone should have minimum one account in only their name.

 

[meow6308]

@nnhust I am not a lawyer. If its the same as everywhere else, the account is frozen until the inheritance is resolved.
In Germany for example it can take up to 6 months if there is no will in place.
So yes, good idea to have a will(even unofficial one in own writing is good than none) and a second account in personal names.

Also in some places if you don't have kids, your spouses siblings and parents might inherit a part of the money as well.

 

[nnhust]

@meow6308 Wait, what?! If I die, my husband doesn't immediately get everything? I thought that was the biggest selling point for marriage.

I get it that it goes further around the tree up/down/sides if we both die eg accident, or when the second one dies. But if this is how inheritance law works in Switzerland, eg that someone who isn't my spouse can claim something.... I definitely need to look into wills immediately. Hm, unless even will can't completely exclude someone from inheritance?

Do you maybe know what type of lawyer I'd need to make will which clearly express wishes? Familienrecht or erbrecht or what would be the keywords to search?

 

[meow6308]

@nnhust Erbrecht I suppose.
If you are not really wealthy I would not get a lawyer. Our net worth is under 500k and we have a pen written will that the other spouse gets all.

If there is no will, the government has to determine the Erbfolge, maybe double check that there are no kids outside of marriage etc. So it will take some time.

The plus of a marriage that the taxes you pay on inheritance is small to non existant and that you get to visit your spouse in the hospital when they can not speak to say you can.

 

[nicolas16]

@nnhust Well, if you're really married I don't think that matter. Anyway anything your spouse have will go to you in priority (unless specific family things, or instructed otherwise, ... or people claiming it). I seem to remember that from old little law courses.

We have a joined account with my GF. Make sense since we live together, everything that go for food / housing is payed from that. And we both put around 700.- on that account every month.

Took about 20 min to create the account, one email to both have it on both our phone app (next to our already existing account(s). For low amount like that you don't even have to declare it.

Seems they have been a few changes "recently" https://www.zurich.ch/en/services/knowledge/investments-and-pension-plans/swiss-inheritance-law

 

[redruthie7889]

@nicolas16

housing is paid from that.

FTFY.

Although payed exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:

• Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. The deck is yet to be payed.
• Payed out when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. The rope is payed out! You can pull now.

Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.

Beep, boop, I'm a bot

 

[nnhust]

@nicolas16 You made me chuckle with first sentence... Like, can someone be not-really married, when they say they are married?

Thanks for the link, it seems it was crazy before this reform, I'll need to reread it several times to be sure I understand.

It seems like we'll have to make a will, to ensure that no one gets crazy ideas. Everything should be left to our cats, of course

 

[adrainsmith]

@nnhust Ask for a copy of the basic documents you both signed and read it.

There should be written that in a case of death the other part is still allowed to have acces to the joint account. In this case, the account will not be blocked.

All the things regarding to the death and heritage are running anyway. During 3 months normaly everything on the name of the died person hase to be froozen to "protect" the asstes for the possible heirs.

"common sense" is the keyword. The man dies and the wife wants to get all the safings immediatly something is fishi... normal cost of living parts no problem at all..

In the past it was common, man works and has the account on his name with a power of attorney for his wife. man dies and wife has problems to get money cause the assets have to be frozen.

BUT the bank will normaly be cooparative and help the widow in such casea.

In your case they wanted to give you extra security and maybe just "sell" some additional products.

Source: Many years experiance as client advisor.

 

[nnhust]

@adrainsmith In our specific case, they couldn't give us at that moment joint account because I didn't have permit in my hand yet.

But it seems that indeed, joint account and power of attorney on private accounts are similar, at least regarding the freeze. Why then they explained it in a way like separate + power of attorney is better.

Maybe they thought that we'd have only joint account, without private ones, so that could be more tricky, eg your bank card doesn't work and you can't buy groceries if it's joint account only, whereas in 2 accounts system you still have own, you just have to transfer money if you're out of money before formal process is finished.

And if during life you have similar amounts on each account, then both spouses have safety net.

In other words, if it was only for fees, they missed the opportunity to make 3 accounts (joint plus 2 private) and now we have just two private ones

Thanks for sharing your thoughts

It seems that indeed we're not missing any benefit, so no need to go and open joint account.

I guess joint one is good solution for two people who don't want power of attorney and still want to have account for household expenses, track budget and such. Must be 'swiss privacy' thing

In Croatia, my country of origin, I think joint accounts don't even exist

 

[cerddoriaeth]

@nnhust If the account is registered as mr OR mrs then it isn't a problem. But it also means, that your better half could close/empty the accounts. Is it registered as mr AND mrs you need to wait until the inheritance distribution is done.

 

[nnhust]

@cerddoriaeth Ooo, so there are two versions of joint accounts?!

See, that's interesting new information I wasn't aware of. Thanks for peeking here and sharing that!

Do you maybe know if there's any other differences between them, like does one type has some other advantage?

 

[cerddoriaeth]

@nnhust There are two options for a shared account indeed:

the OTHER option and the AND option.

The OTHER option is a possible solution to the inheritance distribution problem. But as mentioned your partner could empty/close the account and you can't do anything about it.

With the AND option you have the inheritance distribution problem, but your partner can't empty/close the account without your signature.

But PLEASE ask your bank clerc for the best solution. I am not in the banking business, I am just sharing my personal opinion, experience from the death of my mother and what my banking clerc told me/us.

The 3rd option is in the case of death of your partner to move some money from the joint account to one of your personal accounts that you will be a little bit liquid, but it could get you in trouble when the bank/inheritance office recognise that you only did this because you already know that your partner is dead and you wouldn't inform your bank...

 

[nnhust]

@cerddoriaeth Thanks!

Based on some other threads and informations here, I talked today with my husband that it might be time we write our wills and living wills, and he agreed.

So far we have as I wrote earlier, bunch of private accounts with power of attorney, which indeed brings a similar problem as 3rd option you mention - if you transfer the money from spouse's account after they died and before you notice the bank, you'll be in problem, even with will that leaves everything to surviving spouse (we don't have kids).

Now we keep similar amounts between us, but maybe when we finally manage to have some noticeable savings, we could do OTHER type of account just for that fund, so that it's legally fully accessible to each of us without waiting for inheritance process to finish.

I mean, with power of attorney he already can take all the money and leave already now, so that's not my worry regarding OTHER joint account. Better said, he's at risk that I leave him and run, because he's the one currently earning

But I guess, if we didn't leave each other when shit kept hitting the fan on both sides (to save ourselves from shit pouring down on spouse), now when life is actually good, I have even less 'fears' of some 'leaving out of the blue in a shitty way' could happen.

After all, before we started officially dating we made agreement that if we decide to separate, we'll do it respectfully. If anything, respect between us is higher than back then.

But yes, it still holds that you don't know how someone will really behave in some situation until that situation present itself.

Plan is that we make private investment accounts and start putting equal amounts of money in it. So that one will be real security for each of us. But we're not there yet.

Anyhow, thanks so much for further clarifications!