Is the housing market in another giant bubble?

siskie

New member
I'm basically going off of the simplest equation I can think of to judge how overpriced housing is: median house price vs median wages (or median household income).

What I get is this:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=qMrO

And this:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=n2Gt

The two are fairly similar, though HI is showing more long-term price inflation.

For wages: You'll note the mid-00s bubble is quite clear here, as is the glut predating S&L in the 80s. Those match up nicely, along with the relative non-bubble in the 90s.
For household income: this looks extremely frothy and above the 05/06 peak in frothness. Arguably household income is a far better measure here.

I'm having a hard time reading this as not-a-bubble, even when I've not really heard it called a bubble much in the press. Looking at trendlines, there's a definite continuity of "normal" prices that extends from post-S&L through the 90s, then into post-2008, and (in wages) a continuity of "bubble" prices that extends from S&L into ~06 into more recent times, or just (in household income) a continuation of the 05 bubble that looks to have not fully popped with extreme monetary measures taken in the aftermath. It does look to have leveled off a bit lately but still be above the longer run "normal" average by far.

Of course there are other factors, particularly interest rates being so low allowing more demand to enter the housing market through marginal consumers, along with more purchases for things like AirBnBs, both of which should drive up prices above prior norms. Also demographics, with millennials finally entering the housing market. Also construction/code standards, which have been steadily rising over this period, which should increase both building costs and perceived long-term value. I suppose I'm ignoring the impact of high-value home building in recent years in driving up prices across the board, alongside foreign RE investment inflows.

Ultimately, this all begs the question as to what the long-run "normal" ratio should be. The farthest back the data series go shows a level around 260:1 for wages and 3.6:1 for incomes, but at a time with a funds rate around 10-14%; we've basically been around 0% for most of the past 12 years, only seeing it rise alongside the dip in ratio near the end.

My opinion is that while there may be fundamentals to support a gradual long-term rise in this ratio (what the rational ceiling will be is anyone's guess), much of the most recent cycle activity has been based on historically abnormal interest rates and marginal/speculative buying/building. While rates are unlikely to change for the foreseeable future, I would expect to see a sharp contraction in the market alongside price drops as soon as we had entered any "normal but deep" recession, to say nothing of a pandemic event. Arguably that slide had already begun with rising rates after Q4 2017, and I expect it would have eventually steepened until it burned off much of the "excess" house price over that long-run "normal" trend.

Of course, now we have a lot of other factors to consider due to the lockdowns, which should only further steepen this drop, likely under that long-run "normal" trend. Of course, with a collapse in the median wage/HI, even if the ratio simply "returns to the norm" the actual house price point for that is going to be considerably lower than otherwise due to the drop in wages.

Basically, RE is probably not a great bet right now. Prove me wrong.
 
@siskie Bubble? No. Overvalued, yes.

Not every overvalued market constitutes a bubble. Bubbles usually (but not always) occur with assets that don't have much underlying value.
 
@7times70 What did you call the mid-00s housing market then? I heard it regularly referenced as a bubble. I think I showed how it is statistically similar at least, hence bubble.
 
@siskie That was much more like a bubble than today's market. In 2007, real estate had become highly speculative, with people paying premiums for unbuilt condos, thinking they would flip for a profit and the party would never stop. People were not buying real estate for the asset, but rather solely as an investment. That works until it doesn't.

While prices are high today, you don't see that kind of behavior behind the prices. It seems to be much more driven by low unemployment and a growth economy. That makes it ripe for a correction during recession, but not like the popping of a bubble.
 
@7times70 Cities in Canada have become a bubble over the last several years. Canada's household debt levels are worse than what the US was in 2008. We avoided the 2008 crash and many believe it is now our turn to collapse
 
@siskie The market didn’t simply collapse because housing was overvalued. It happened because many of the mortgages traded by the banks defaulted.
 
@lyn112 You're correct. The elevated home prices were the effect caused by and large due to the lax lending standards, which created the junk mortgage backed securities, that were then passed of as AAA rated.
 
@siskie Yes. It’s referred to as the housing bubble. But the thing that burst was the mortgage assets that the homes were tied to. But “NINJA Loan Bubble” isn’t as easy for the layman to really understand.
 
I'll do the obvious contrarian point here:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=n0Q0

Debt servicing as a percent of household income is an important factor, and shows the opposite of a bubble presently, though it still shows a steep rise in the 80s and 00s. Going by this measure, if anything there is considerable headroom in the market, and this trend is likely to continue as interest rates stay at or below 0%.

My non-contrarian response is that this series is particularly prone to the issue with average income , which skews numbers considerably downward. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=qMtf (disposable income / median income). Median income reflects a much larger percentage of market participants, while average disposable income is heavily skewed by the upper quintile.

Additionally, this measure is heavily coupled to interest rates, and any extended upward shift in those would crater the new homebuyer market compared to its more recent trend based on this relationship. That said, it's unlikely such a market-changing rate shift will occur soon with rates looking if anything to be heading down further in months/years to come.
 
@siskie
Additionally, this measure is heavily coupled to interest rates, and any extended upward shift in those would crater the new homebuyer market compared to its more recent trend based on this relationship. That said, it's unlikely such a market-changing rate shift will occur soon with rates looking if anything to be heading down further in months/years to come.

Isnt this a very good argument for why housing is not a bubble?
 
@siskie Historically, owning land has not been a feature of the working class. So, instead of showing that real estate is overvalued by comparing to earned income, you are showing that real estate is returning to the wealthy class, where it has historically been held.

Capital in the 21st Century explains and predicts the situation pretty well.
 
@robert2032 I cited Piketty for his multi-century data of real estate and capital asset ownership, and his prediction of a return to a "second golden age" of wealth inequality. Not necessarily his policy suggestions (percentage-based wealth tax).
 
@mikeisraelite72
I cited Piketty for his multi-century data of real estate and capital asset ownership, and his prediction of a return to a "second golden age" of wealth inequality.

You're being serious here right? You're not trolling me?

FT published a piece years ago detailing all of the errors in his spreadsheets. Larry Summers publicly dismissed his equation as at odds with the marginal substitution between labor and capital, he subs in land and non productive assets as capital when modeling capital and labor's share of production which is obviously nonsense.

Like come on man, how could you have read Piketty and yet somehow slept on the fact that he has been almost unanimously rejected by the econ community for selling his integrity for a book deal? The "findings" you're talking about are based on some really pretty garbage methodology and a spreadsheet with some glaring errors. He's been compared to R&R on occasion - although obviously not nearly as detrimental to policy given that he was dismissed pretty early on.
 

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