Is it bad to ask for a pay raise with a competitor's offer?

[allenschwartzmd]

@riverwood Coz i can understand the reason they've been brushing this off and also the other company kinda sucks in terms of job stability/culture/company performance in general...but yeh i will always have a back up option

 

[hogynllan]

@allenschwartzmd No offense meant mate but you’re just hearing what you want to hear.

I’ll repeat what they said for you…

never accept the counter from your current company

This is solid advice.

It might go ok for you, but there’s a way, way, bigger chance that it won’t.

 

[riverwood]

@allenschwartzmd You don't actually have a backup option; you HAD a job offer for 40% more pay and a better title. That job isn't available anymore as it would have been filled. I would start looking again, as you are not going to get promoted here.

 

[jamalh]

@allenschwartzmd It’s bad form to go through the recruitment process to get to an offer stage to just use it as leverage.

Once I start interviewing it’s because my current employer has demonstrated they don’t value me enough to retain me willingly.

 

[allenschwartzmd]

@jamalh But if you tell them in a way that sounded like you're gonna quit, and they make rectifications in salary and other work adjustments, does it still make you look bad? It sort of alleviates the suspicion that you're interviewing to fk with them?

 

[jamalh]

@allenschwartzmd I would enter the conversation talking about market value and that you would like to be adjusted accordingly while referencing your performance. Mention that you would prefer to stay with your current leader/team/company because of x/y/z. If action isn’t taken in a reasonable timeframe then being conversations with recruiters to move on. If they refer to standard pay cycles etc and they can’t do anything, move on. Once you start interviewing do it with a view that you are leaving and only interview for roles that you are excited to explore.

I always change companies every 3 years. My salary has more than doubled in the last 6 years.

 

[blakebaka]

@jamalh No it’s not. That’s a lie GenX were taught to keep us underpaid. We don’t owe them shit.

It’s bad form to not test the market and often to make sure we get the best deal for ourselves. That includes money, title, company, location etc etc.

The onus is on management to retain talent.

 

[jamalh]

@blakebaka I don’t think you understood my point. It’s bad form to burn the hiring company, going through the entire process to offer stage with no intent of accepting the offer. It’s a great way to end up on recruiter/hiring manager shit lists and limit future opportunities.

I change jobs every 3 years and I never interview just to get ammunition. I interview if my current employer won’t meet reasonable salary demands given the current market. If they need black mail to remunerate me correctly then I am happy to move to a company that values me.

 

[psalms91baby]

@jamalh I get the argument, but also depends how niche your industry of choice is. If there's 5 potential employers, not worth it. If there's 50,000, not as big a deal.

 

[blakebaka]

@psalms91baby You’re right that definitely makes a difference. But niche employers often also have niche employees. I’m in STEM with transferable skills and when I’ve worked in smaller industries the same names and faces popped up in each new company I joined.

 

[psalms91baby]

@blakebaka That can go both ways, though. At a certain point you're niche enough that companies also have to put up with your foibles more than if you're a stock standard Accounting or Marketing drone.

 

[blakebaka]

@jamalh I did misunderstand slightly but I still disagree. People decline offers for all sorts of reasons. It’s not unreasonable for someone to do it especially given we often don’t know what they’re offering until we go all the way through the process. Again, the onus is on them, not us

The notion that you’re ’burning’ anyone for doing what is best for you is a lie GenX were fed.

 

[jamalh]

@blakebaka Nobody fed anybody anything. Reputations matter at a certain point. Up to you how you treat yours. My approach has made me very successful. You follow yours.

Edit
I am referring to professional roles.

 

[blakebaka]

@jamalh Yes, it is a lie we were fed. The fear mongering about reputation is classic GenX rhetoric. As if knowing our value and acting on it is a bad thing. Wild.

Not sure about you but I don’t want to work for a place or management that considers me advocating for myself as bad for my reputation. Been there, done that.

My approach has made me very successful, companies work to retain me (edit, professional role) and I’ve avoided bad workplaces for almost 20 years now.

The world is changing - best you keep up.

 

[jamalh]

@blakebaka Once again, you are filtering my words through some chip on the shoulder lens you have. I didn't say not to advocate for yourself; I didn't say not to pursue opportunities.

I, personally, have changed employers twice in the last 6 years. I always 100% advocate for driving your salary and career forward.

I was trying to communicate to the OP that you don't waste hiring managers' time by applying for jobs you are never going to take. If you are genuinely pursuing opportunities elsewhere, because your employer isn't remunerating you against market value, then absolutely pursue those opportunities.

Lastly, don't be a condescending. Congratulations on your excellent career.

 

[blakebaka]

@jamalh I’m not sure how I’ve misunderstood you saying that testing the market is bad for your reputation.

It’s not wasting hiring managers time as that is their literal job but even if it wasn’t why would that be a priority over using it as leverage to get a better result where you are?

It’s not condescending to tell you the world is changing and you need to keep up when you’re here repeating fear mongering nonsense about ‘reputation’.

 

[jamalh]

@blakebaka Sorry, I get it, you don’t deal with anybody with any meaningful influence in your industry. We are coming from very different perspectives.

 

[blakebaka]

@jamalh Oh boy. What a bizarre take. That and the reputation scare mongering reminds me of mediocre middle managers whose main job is to keep salaries low.

 

[amazingme5888]

@allenschwartzmd Yeh leverage 100% but be prepared to leave if you don’t get the bump. They won’t take you seriously after that if you stay and don’t get the raise.

 

[nrg80]

@allenschwartzmd Your company won't take it seriously unless you show them a contract that your imminently going to sign.