[Illinois] Will I have to return my benefits?

[harris098]

Long story and not sure how much details will be needed.

I worked for a Contract Company X working at Fortune 500 Company C doing electronics testing (Job A). It was on site job, you had to use the ovens and freezers to endurance cycle test the telecom components. There were 3 on our team, a company lead, another contractor and me. Did great work, rave reviews from leads/customers. Work slowed and the other contractor left. Then I got moved to a different role, basically project management (Job B), which was just spreadsheets, web publishing, emails, meetings etc. Did a great job there also, automated and optimized workflow, took over work from my lead so gw could do some long term projects. My lead loved me.

Then Covid hit in March 2020 and we started working from home. This job was perfect for WFH, no issues, everybody happy. Then 'because of Covid', they cut contractor pay 10% company wide. I was very unhappy because I deserved a raise and got a pay cut instead. Fast forward to late Feb 2020 and my Company C manager told me I had to now do Job A and Job B because the former lead moved on. I had to return to work before I was vaccinated (vaccines weren't available for my age range yet). No mention of pay change for added responsibilities, just work 2 jobs for 90% of the pay for one. I told her, "I'm not comfortable with that" and the conversation pretty much ended. 2 weeks later I was fired (3-5-2020). I collected unemployment for 2 months, got another contract job elsewhere in the same company, still there.

So today, I get a letter, I have a call as Company X (my previous contract employer) is saying I was terminated, which is true. Am I screwed? What should I say and how should I say it? I thought the firing was unjustified, it's unfair to be forced to double your workload with the same already reduced pay.

Thanks

UPDATE: Unemployment shot them down, my contract employer said I was terminated for "Incompetence", but offered no proof, so it was determined to be bullshit. And it was, because I was extremely competent and got fired for refusing to work 2 jobs.

 

[jimmccallister]

@harris098 Just answer their questions. The employer protested your claim saying you were fired, which is accurate, so now IDES needs to know why you were fired. They'll ask questions and you'll answer them honestly and wait for a decision. Sometimes refusing work that is beyond your pay scale is considered good cause, other times it isn't, and it's just impossible to make that call which is why an adjudicator is in charge of it.

 

[fagosflasy]

@harris098

1. Do NOT ever do phone calls. Zero. IDES is really shady. Their people are trained to ask you "trick" questions. Only correspons by letter or email, tell them you have laryngitis and can't talk. They are determined to get you to admit fault or will trip you up and catch you off guard and they RECORD all phone calls. They may even ask to have a 3-way call with your former employer, which again is a trap. You will only cause yourself to lose benefits. Do not feel intimidated by them. Tell them are happy to answer any questions via email or mail only. Trust me, you will lose this if you talk on the phone. And there is about 4-5 appeals that can happen just to wear you out. Some of these involve talking to their "Administrative Law Judge" aka "ALJ" which is not a real judge, just a 22 year old law school grad, but it is meant to intimidate you. The final appeal is the ONLY fair chance you have because it is held in a real county court in front of a real judge who is not on their side.​

 

[fagosflasy]

I do have more info to share, but let me know if you care to hear it since I was downvoted, I know IDES better than anyone.

 

[junkyarder]

@fagosflasy The trolls downvote everyone. Some reason people make sport of it.

Please continue

 

[fagosflasy]

@junkyarder Depending on how much money is at stake, your best bet is hiring an Employment lawyer, they will do the talking and you will 99% win, but lawyers cost money, maybe up to $500, but considering how much you could lose, it can be worth it.

On the other side, if you end up losing all the appeals, you do Not have to pay back the money you got, only if you did not fraudulently attempt to receive benefits. This is a grey area, but if they have solid evidence and you made up some crazy story, or if you applied for benefits for a company that you never actually worked for, then that is fraud. When you receive unemployment and it is determined as "fraud" they have your Lifetime to try to collect on you, by withholding money from future paychecks and state income tax refunds. If they determine there was no obvious fraud on your part, and you fail all the appeals, then IDES only has 5 years to collect back the money they paid to you, but cannot garnish future paychecks, and can only withhold $ from state income tax returns...in other words DO NOT VOLUNTARILY REPAY THEM THE MONEY. After 5 years, it is dismissed and you get to keep the money for free. They don't tell you this, in hopes you will just repay. If you enter into a "Payment Plan" this will increase their statute of limitations to collect from 5 years to 10 years, so NEVER agree to a payment plan and never repay the benefits you received.

 

[resjudicata]

@harris098 Illinois is an at-will-employment state, they don't even owe you a reason why they let you go. They can simply decide they don't like you any more and fire you. It does not matter what your job was, or what your role is with a company, or if they are fortune 500.

 

[harris098]

@resjudicata Sure. The question is, was my employment claim legit? I got $2600 a month for 2 months and I'd rather not pay it back.

I mean, my performance was excellent. And because I refused a shit assignment, I'm fucked? At some point, a line can be crossed where I'm eligible for unemployment. Can they cut my pay in half, make me work 3 jobs and if I refuse, fire me and make me starve because they contest my claim?

 

[scarletbeast]

@harris098

because I refused a shit assignment, I'm fucked?

Yeah, its right to work. You dont want to do the job? Ok, fired. Also, if im the employer, im going to fight your UI claim because you refused to do your job. You were fired because you would not work. Therefore, not entitled to benefits.

TBH, seems pretty clear cut to me. Refusing to do your job and then getting fired for cause doesn't entitle you to benefits.

 

[fagosflasy]

@scarletbeast It's not "refusing to do your job". The company pulled a bait and switch. He was hired to do a job, then the company turns around and changes his duties with reduced pay.

 

[resjudicata]

@fagosflasy The company is allowed to do this, you can change what someone's job is and ask them do something else.

 

[junkyarder]

@scarletbeast It's not their job, it's a new job they didn't want to do.

 

[harris098]

@junkyarder They made the opening because the F500 lead forced a job change. So they tried to make it my problem.

 

[resjudicata]

@scarletbeast Yes, refusing to do your job (even if your employer just makes up some bullshit task for you to do) is still refusing to do you job, but you're missing the whole point, they don't need a reason to fire you.

It's fascinating that people are downvoting me like I wrote the damn laws, sorry but just because you don't like this fact doesn't make it illegal for them, this is how it works and it's not just conjecture, I'm telling you what the laws are for your state regarding this. They can just fire you without cause, so everything else besides that is moot.

 

[jamaix]

@harris098 Being terminated from the Fortune 500 company is immaterial. You likely would not have been fired from the Contract Employer under those circumstances. You were likely terminated from the Contract Employer for not following up with them within three days and weekly regarding a new assignment. Those are usually the requirements for receiving UI from an agency/contractor employer.

If you did that and you just happened to get another job from another placement company, then you will be fine. If you did not stay in touch with them, then you will likely be denied. Placement companies rarely contest UI claims if you follow their rules, so they are likely mad about losing you.

You actually had reason to complain and leave the Fortune 500 position because the work became unsuitable when they substantially changed your duties and lowered your pay. But as I said, that is not really an issue hear unless your Contract employer also terminated you for the same reason, in which case, you should have still be qualified for benefits.

 

[harris098]

@jamaix Thanks for replying.

When the F500 company terminated my contract, I was contacted by my contract company and told what happened. I was bummed, but asked if they had more work elsewhere for me. The contract guy pointed me to their website, where they had jobs posted. I got on there and applied for a lot of jobs. Never heard back.

 

[jamaix]

@harris098 Then you should be fine, BUT, if you didn't follow what ever rules they have about staying in touch, that is the only issue. But him telling you to look at the website, implies you were NOT fired by the placement company. If I was deciding your case, that would be enough to grant you benefits. BUT, I worked contract for 10 years and ran a legal placement agency before I became a UI Hearing Officer, so I probably have a better understanding of how this is supposed to work than most adjudicators or hearing officers, so you may need to push for the proper outcome. Just try to research the issues in your case, so you can answer their questions using their own terminology. And make sure you understand exactly what happened. Good Luck - let me know if you need clarification.

 

[harris098]

@jamaix I have no idea why I'm being downvoted?

 

[jamaix]

@harris098 They changed the rules to limit who can post and so the trolls aren't allowed to post any more. So now the only thing they can do to be annoying is downvote good posts.

 

[harris098]

@jamaix All I know is my F500 manager and I had that discussion. Then she mentioned she was displeased that I would refuse and would contact my contract company. I told her I was OK with that, as I was hoping for them to negotiate higher pay to do both jobs, that seemed like the logical outcome.

Not long after, I got a call from HR in the contract company and the lady was mad and let me have it. Not sure what she heard from F500 manager After listening patiently for a while, I said, "STOP. Let me tell you what happened." I laid it out for her as above and her tone changed entirely, from mad to supportive. Then I waited for the other shoe to drop and 2 weeks later got a call from Reggie, my regular contract rep saying my contract had been severed. Not that it mattered, but it was dumb, because for my 10% back, I would have done both jobs, I was trained and excellent at both. In Job A, I replaced 2 people and did more than both. In Job B, they had revolving door of poor performers till I got there. They've been struggling with the workload ever since. My F500 lead was pissed. He loved my work and had my back all along, he had heard a rumor I would be asked to do that and he thought it was shitty of the F500 manager (she was his boss also). I ended up getting snapped up at another department of F500 and making 20k more.