I just got my will and Vorsorgeauftrag notarized at 24 - ask me anything!

[tom112]

I did what the title says. In preparation, I did some research to the point where I read all the relevant articles in the ZGB. My research also revealed that the great majority of people don‘t take care of these things, which I found quite shocking (I mean I get it, these are not happy topics, but still…).

So, here I am trying to raise awareness that this is important. I‘m not a lawyer, but I‘m good enough at reading laws to give some indications what you should look into more closely (in more complex situations possibly with a lawyer).
As someone who lives with their partner without being married, I also dived into all the questions surrounding that.

So yeah, ask me anything!

 

[liv212]

@tom112 What's your favorite ice cream flavor?

 

[tom112]

@liv212 That kinda depends on where I get the ice cream. But I will go with yoghurt or cinnamon.

 

[mmend]

@tom112 You can ask you local gemeinde notary for a template. If you dont have kids, all you have to do is handwrite the will, date and sign it. And store it

 

[doubleflip7]

@tom112 How did you find your lawyer. We have not had much luck looking in Zürich. I am a lawyer so know what we need, but am not a Swiss lawyer so need a local specialist to help.

 

[tom112]

@doubleflip7 The lawyer who does the contracts for my partner‘s company also does these kind of things, so we just contacted her.
Otherwise I would have googled. An option could also be going through your bank as they usually have estate planning specialists. For example the ZKB https://www.zkb.ch/en/lps/private-banking/generations.html

Oh and also the notary offices can give you advice https://www.notariate-zh.ch/deu/

 

[axo]

@tom112 Have a wife and three kids, what should I know such that they are protected? I assume they get everything?

 

[tom112]

@axo When a married person dies, first the Güterstand gets dissolved. Assuming you have an Errungenschaftsbeteiligung like most people, your wife gets half of the assets accumulated during the marriage already from that.
The other half as well as your Eigengut (assets you had before marriage, inheritances you received) are then to be distributed between your wife and children. Your wife again gets half. The other half is equally distributed among your children, so that each of them gets 1/6.

Assuming your wife is the mother of all of your children, you could make a provision for her to get everything and the children only to receive an inheritance once the second parent dies.

As you are married, your wife is entitled to pensions by the first and second pillar. She is also the beneficiary of your pillar 3a. Your children are also entitled to pensions depending on their age.

What I would definitely consider is a Vorsorgeauftrag. Also, for the case something should happen to you AND your wife, there is the possibility to create a declaration regarding who you wish to become your children‘s guardian. As I don‘t have children myself, I don‘t know the requirements for this one, though.

 

[axo]

@tom112 Interesting, thanks! Have a good contact to write a will?

 

[tom112]

@axo There are a lot of templates online. Alternatively, you can contact your bank or a notary office.

 

[weesa]

@tom112 This is quite simplified (and also not totally correct on the fact that you can by yourself decide that your children get no inheritance : as they renounce their rights, they have to agree on it too, and they must be 18 to do this. The other mechanisms don't lead to full removal of the inherited rights)

 

[tom112]

@weesa I looked this up again and indeed I misremembered something. In a marriage contract, you can decide that the whole Errungenschaft (the assets accumulated during the marriage, like income, interest, dividends or any property you buy from that money) goes to the survivkng spouse. The Eigengut (assets you had before the marriage, or inherited) still gets split unless you establish an knheritance contract where your children renounce their rights to that.

 

[weesa]

@tom112 Still not exact, there still is a certain level of protection for the descendents that prevents this. You may have overseen CC 241 III.

Also, there is more to that than just the children. There may be no children but there may be parents...

I don't mean to offend but stating that you are "quite good at reading laws" and then offering an AmA is a bold move, especially in a topic that complex. That very sentence also shows that you may not have grasped the complexity of how the whole system works, with numerus precisions (and sometimes even blunt refutations) added by the courts and by the doctrine authors over the last 100 years. It's a bit like I'd have successfully managed to set up an iMac and then immediately opening an AmA about MacOS.

 

[tom112]

@weesa I said that I read the ZGB and did some research online, but I also made sure to state that I‘m not a lawyer. My point is not to give exact legal advice but to motivate people to look into these things and give them some pointers to look into and discuss with actual lawyers. As I also said, I had my own documents checked by one because while I felt capable enough to write them I definitely needed an expert opinion on whether the provisions actually hold the way I formulated them or if there was something I had not considered. I also think it goes without saying that a stranger on the internet cannot replace a professional with whom you discuss your circumstances and wishes in detail. I just look at some basic facts and point out things to consider, which is a huge difference. I also went to my lawyer with „I read that…“ and she told me what to make of it. But having read or heard it is a valuable starting point in my opinion.

 

[weesa]

@tom112 I know what you said. But going anywhere beyond raising awareness (I.e. answering questions on precise topics and individual situatios) already represents a certain level of advice, the use of which you then don't know about.

Imagine the following : you have provided advice (which in this case was not entirely correct). Some people will read your post, act based upon it and then ignore the standard caveat to go and get their will checked by a lawyer (not smart, but way more common than one would think).

In 40 or 50 years, your advice will possibly have created a shitty situation that will cost at least 20k in legal fees to untangle, because the surviving spouse expected something they won't actually receive, and the children will receive something they didn't expect and won't necessarily agree to give it back. Even if they do give it back, extra taxes will be around the corner...

Allow me another analogy : would you write a post saying : "I am good at reading medical litterature and I recently got a colonoscopy, ask me anything about colon cancer" ?

 

[mwinga]

@tom112 You can also do this simply via https://www. gutgeregelt.ch/

 

[glendavidson]

@mwinga Is there a French version? clicking doesn’t seem to do anything and Safari dynamic translate doesn’t seem the easiest way to go - working for English but not French for some reason. Thanks

 

[lennonali]

@tom112 Whats the basics i need to cover? Whos doing that for me for the least amount of money?

 

[tom112]

@lennonali You should think in terms of three scenarios:

The first is relatively harmless. Say you move house but fall and break your leg. As you are at the hospital, you can‘t give the keys to your landlord. Or you are on holiday but there‘s a letter that needs to be picked up from the post office. In these cases, giving someone power of attorney (Vollmacht) helps. You can either do that for specific things (Spezialvollmacht, e. g. to get your post) or to generally represent you (Generalvollmacht). This is only valid as long as you have legal capacity (Handlungsfähigkeit). Now, here it depends a bit whether you are married or not. If you are married, your spouse can do everyday stuff such as getting the post.

The second scenario is that you lose that legal capacity (e. g. because of dementia or an accident). For this case, you need a Vorsorgeauftrag, in which you can decide who can represent you regarding (1) your personal care, (2) financial matters, and (3) legal matters. This can be the same person or different ones for the different areas. If you don‘t have that, the KESB appoints a Beistand. This can still be a family member or friend but it‘s much more complicated. Also here, everyday matters can be taken care of by your spouse if you are married, but obviously in such a scenario a lot of decisions that go beyond everyday matters need to be made.

Lastly, in a will you can decide what happens with your assets when you die. You don‘t necessarily need a will. If you are happy with the standard provisions you don‘t have to do anything. Especially if you are unmarried and want your partner to get (part of) your assets, a will is needed. Being unmarried is especially „funny“ when it comes to your second and third pillars. For the second pillar, you need to check the Vorsorgereglement if and under which circumstances unmarried partners get something. Often, the partnership needs to be announced to the pension fund while the insured person is still alive. For the third pillar, you need to tell the bank using a form that they will provide you with upon request.

Regarding costs, the cheapest option is taking templates from the internet, adapting them to your needs, handwriting, dating and signing everything.

 

[abishope]

@tom112 Can you do it in English?