How Singapore Solved Housing

[christ_our_lord]

For context, the Singapore population is 5.6m people with a land area of 728.6 km². Relative to Ireland of circa 5m people and 84,421 km². There are roughly 7600 people per km in Singapore compared to 60 people in Ireland. Yet we've managed to botch housing. I think there is a lot to be learnt from this video.

 

[devastatednate]

@christ_our_lord I have not had the chance to watch the video but I will and it could change my mind, but two things on Singapore:

1. Their housing isn't really any more affordable than Ireland using a median-multiple comparing incomes to cost of housing
2. They have built masses of housing that would simply be unacceptable to a huge swath of Irish society. You get protests over 6 story "skyscrapers" in some parts of Dublin. People would lose their minds at being asked to live in a relatively small high-rise apartment

 

[christ_our_lord]

@devastatednate Median multiple doesn't take into consideration a lot of support systems on offer. For instance, help to buy, shared equity etc. In Singapore, there appear to be a lot more effective policies not captured in the median multiple. For instance, you may see a lower home ownership rate if affordability was an issue but in Singapore it's 90%+.

I completely agree with you on the second point. It's a major issue that needs to be addressed.

 

[cdub]

@christ_our_lord Even without the schemes (although we really do need them) the country would be in a much better place without the objections. Singapore shows the way to build properly is to build up. Were never going to fix the issues with a few estates of semi D's a year. We need a major building effort in the cities like Dublin, Galway and Cork etc

 

[frank69]

@cdub But if you build apartments young people might go to live there

 

[simplistik]

@cdub Not even without the objections. Many objections are valid. But the planning system should be there to facilitate national priorities, not pander to the whims of locals. Whether it’s 8 storey towers, offshore wind farms or electrical interconnectors.

 

[andyweb]

@christ_our_lord Part of their high ownership is due to them being legally required to contribute to a pension scheme, and one of the few ways of cashing out early is through home purchase.

It worked there because they were starting with a blank slate for the most part, their political landscape, and how aggressive their policies were. They were not necessarily solving a housing crisis as much as they were shaping everything about the society.

 

[devastatednate]

@andyweb

It worked there because they were starting with a blank slate for the most part, their political landscape, and how aggressive their policies were. They were not necessarily solving a housing crisis as much as they were shaping everything about the society.

And most of that shaping was done by effectively a benevolent dictator who was in power for over 30 years.

 

[baboo]

@christ_our_lord

Median multiple doesn’t take into consideration a lot of support systems on offer. For instance, help to buy, shared equity etc.

Of course, these interventions are not supply side solutions and so they wouldn’t work here

 

[devastatednate]

@christ_our_lord Point 2 is virtually insurmountable imo. And the most popular party in the country by a distance is promising every man, women, child, cat and dog a 3 bed semi with a nice garden.

 

[roadtojericho]

@devastatednate Their housing strategy is spot on because you can have millionaires living in the same building as welfare recipients.

Yes it won't be acceptable to us Irish. But they're correct and we aren't.

 

[devastatednate]

@roadtojericho What? It's not the millionaires who need to be convinced.

 

[queenvictoria93]

@christ_our_lord Unless you’re super cramped (i.e. Monaco), the size of the country is not very relevant to housing crises. It’s nit land (nationwide) we’re short of.

Personally, I would like to see the government get into construction and more cost-rental letting. But it’s far from an easy fix, between current building capacity/costs, increased demand for higher spending / lower taxes due to CoL, and higher interest rates.

A lot of Irish people are also inherently against apartment living. Some will hide behind “oh it’s just because Irish apartments are awful” but I have never met a nation so obsessed with individual houses.

 

[simplistik]

@queenvictoria93 To be fair the most ardent voices against apartments tend to be people who own houses. It’s a bit of a “I have a house I that is much nicer than this. Therefore other people shouldn’t live in these bad apartments” blissfully unaware they are forcing people to rent not gifting them nice houses.

 

[blessedgigi]

@queenvictoria93 Well, to be fair, irish apartments are not nice. I have lived in many countries and I can tell you, the ones here are mot really nice. I have nothing against living in a nice apartment.

 

[jayleen]

@blessedgigi The new ones are not bad. But nimbys folks are stopping even new ones from being built.

 

[atthetable]

@blessedgigi I think you are talking about the old apartments in the very city centre built circa 1990's. There are a lot of apartments built in the 2000s that are actually really nice (e.g. Docklands, Sandyford, some in Cork St)

 

[steviepugh]

@queenvictoria93 I think its because apartments are for big cities and our cities are too small and unimpressive compared to the continent.

 

[coma123]

@christ_our_lord I’ve lived in Singapore. And I own a property there still so I’m happy to comment directly.

1. The property ownership system in Singapore is very different to any western nation. It is a Chinese/western hybrid. The government subsidies high rise apartment blocks for citizens. Purchase price is approx 150k for an apartment. You must be married to purchase or over 35.
2. Others who are typically rich or western can purchase a condo (or apartment) with pool, security guards at the entrance and other facilities. These are approx 800k (euro) and up.
3. No issues with building up. In fact encouraged due to land space.
4. Low taxes and no welfare system. Singapore rewards it’s citizens through low tax (increases apartment purchase power) and does not supply welfare, ie family are expected to care for elderly, unemployed or disabled. This reduces public expenditure greatly and encourages people to work.

Main differences to Ireland: Singapore isn’t a welfare state, low taxes yet services are incredibly inefficient as government money is spent wisely, they are happy to build up due to lack of land.

Ireland and Singapore are actually similar in the sense they have a low corporate tax rate and encourage a lot of foreign investment. Biggest difference is Ireland is a welfare state, doesn’t spend their tax money wisely and punishes citizens for wealth creation.

Ireland could be a Singapore, and it’s the biggest wasted opportunity of a lifetime for Irish people unfortunately. I genuinely feel sorry for citizens because you the opportunity is there, but will be squandered on a lack of leadership and well though through investment in infrastructure and government spending habits.

 

[lazareth]

@coma123 Yeah but SG is full of old people having to work due to the lack of a welfare state. If you are unlucky to get sick and can't afford to pay for it they'll force you to sell your house (if you are lucky enough to have one) to pay for the care - forcing people into poverty.

Don't get me started on the foreign workers - locked in their dorms and treated like filth. The death penalty for mentally handicapped men (yes all drug offenses but they could show some humanity in some cases) is heartbreaking - I am absolutely appalled at these cases.

The only happy people in SG are the rich ones (you are surely there earning a nice expat salary). Have you spoken to any of the normal Singaporeans?

I don't think SG is anything to aspire to (apart from some of their housing strategies (e.g. build up and public housing)).