How is anyone with a full time job struggling ?

[deborahs757]

I’ve been reeding a couple of subreddits, including this one and there always seems to be the same types of post of people struggling to make ends meet on a normal salary.

I am seriously wondering how this is possible in Switzerland. The only explanation I can see is that people have incredibly poor spending habits.

Would struggling people who have a 100% job income please post their general financial numbers so I could make sense of it ?

For example I earn around 105k gross + 17k from an appartement I’m renting out.
Net income ~ 104k

Taxes ~25k
Health insurance ~5k
Housing ~ 15k
Parking rental ~2k
Food ~ 5k
Fun+vacation ~5k
Car, clothes, electronics ~ 2k
Internet, phone bill ~1k

Money saved yearly = 104k-60k=44k (+8k second pilar).

I feel like I’m living an extremely confortable life and I could still be affording the same lifestyle with minimal salary (47k in geneva) and still be putting money towards my net worth every year.

 

[sammac]

@deborahs757 Now remove half your income and add two children

 

[regret_living]

@sammac Just the 2 children. And how is your house 15k a year? For a family its closer to >30k a year as you need at least 3.5 rooms. And then most of your savings already gone i guess.

I dont think struggle is the right word with your salary. Bit our spending with 2 adults and 2 kids is around 100k a year (excl 2nd pillar savings). And we live reasonably cheap.
We could live with your salary though but then not save a dime (and would never have been able to buy our home as well).

 

[deborahs757]

@regret_living The numbers were for a single person, but for a couple you could just multiply everything by 2 and then you’d get 3k for housing.

 

[regret_living]

@deborahs757 Yes but that is likely unrealistic wrt income. Typical family income in silver coast is around 180’000 chf which is likely much higher than in other places.

 

[bulletproof3]

@regret_living You realise 180k is a shit tons of money, right?

 

[zaphnatpanea]

@deborahs757 Seems unlikely, with 2 kids full time in the Kita, you would need to pay 35k per year. And to be honest, a 3 1/2 for 4 people may work with very small kids. Not for long though.

 

[asxdvcfgt]

@zaphnatpanea Way more than 35k, no ?

 

[deborahs757]

@sammac A child in switzerland costs between 10k-15k / year.
You get 3,5k in help and ~2,5k less taxes in my case, so the real cost is 4k-9k. Even if I was a single dad of 2 it would just mean that instead of saving 44k each year I would save ~30k.

If you are saying that it’s hard if you earn minimum salary, have a stay at home wife/husband and 2 children, then yes I agree.

 

[stevona]

@deborahs757 Kita alone can cost 20k-25k per year, per kid. Never mind health insurance, extra housing costs, clothes, food. Your estimate is way off as is your assumption that people who might be having a harder time than you financially are just bad at budgeting.

 

[deborahs757]

@stevona Kits is 20-25k per year if you are using it 5 days a week AND make good money.
If you’re a single income household then you don’t have to pay kita, if you can do some work from home then you can not pay for 5 days as well.

 

[stevona]

@deborahs757 Work from home and mind toddlers at the same time... sorry buddy, that's not how the real world works
Also I don't know why you think being a single income family means you don't pay Kita.

Genuinely, do you want to understand the perspective of other people on this topic or are you just trolling a bit?

 

[deborahs757]

@stevona No I really do want to understand. So far what I’m getting is that people struggle when they have a single income, that is the minimal income and 2-3 kids to take care of.
I can understand how one would struggle in this situation. I’m also guessing that this situation is a result from one of the parents losing his/her job because why would you ever think having having 2 kids is a good idea on a single 50k income.
So while I appreciate the post, this situation seems very exceptional and not the norm. I was trying to understand how regular average people struggle.
Also Kita isn’t mandatory so if one of the parents isn’t working, they can take care of the kids at home i thought

 

[nomadnurse]

@deborahs757 I’ll give you the example of friends. Both in the 100k+ salary range. Three kids. Her salary went every month to the kita and other kid related expenses. She was left with a couple of hundred. His salary was needed for the rest.

Now they could afford it. Now imagine when you do NOT have higher income:.

 

[nungirl_7]

@nomadnurse I think the situation depends a lot of the canton/Gemeinde, if you have access to (good) public structures or not. Public structures are subsidized, but he you want to, or have to, go with a private structures, you pay a lot more. Sometimes, you don't have the choice.

 

[sammac]

@deborahs757 That's what I'm saying yes These are the people who struggle, not the young singles on a good salary.

 

[deegee823]

@deborahs757 The average cost to raise a child up to 18y is 450k, so avg 25k/per y. If you've an infant, the yearly avg is way more. Just the daycare cost around 20k/y

 

[warrina]

@deborahs757 Man you have no idea what children cost you in real life

 

[caspet]

@sammac You would hopefully have a higher salary unless one partner has no income and just stays at home.

 

[witbos]

@deborahs757 ah, the blissful life of the single person with no children and a salary well above the median.