How common is it for a company to give a maximum of 8 months bonus in Tokyo?

neuric

New member
Just received a verbal offer from a subsidiary of a Japanese conglomerate in Tokyo. The offer takes into account another offer that I already had from a competitor.

Offer from competitor:
10.3M annual + up to 3 months bonus. Average bonus is 2 months. Yearly total is likely around 12M

Offer that I just received:
9.1M annual + up to 8 months bonus. Average bonus is 4 months. Yearly total is likely around 12.1M

Is it common for people to give out up to 8 months bonus with 4 months being the average/expected? Or is this just a strategy for the company to save money by lowballing my fixed pay with the option of paying less than the expected bonuses in the end? Also, is there any advantages (e.g. lower tax) for me from having lower fixed pay and higher bonuses? 🤔
 
@neuric I would say it’s not very common. Also, the fact that bonuses are on no way guaranteed together with the fact that you said “up to” would have me hands down choosing the offer from the competitor with the higher base pay.
 
@neuric I see three reasons to go with the 10M base :

- Variable salary in that order of magnitude, in my limited experience, would be for very highly paid c-suits. You could start to see 50% (6 months) variable if you're paid 25M and upward - at least that is the image I have. Therefore for the salary you are being proposed, it seems out of place.

- I would absolutely go for the 10.3M fixed salary proposal if only judging by the numbers. That is a solid 13% over the 9.1M offer, representing many years of 'average' increase if you start from 9.1M. The fixed part of your salary is important to get housing loan, negotiate your next move base pay etc.

- Of course the main point is that bonus can disappear at any time, but moreover just mathematically with the same average salary, the largest bonus part just exposes you to more risk (variation between years). This is why we invest in diversified stocks, to reduce volatility (risk) at no cost, and the same applies to the case you presented.
 
@eterna Thanks for the explanation. For the second point on "negotiate your next move base pay", wouldn't the negotiation be on annual expected basis instead of base pay?
 
@neuric Yes and no. Most companies afaik already have a bonus system and % for the grade you apply so mostly discuss the fix part, and then apply their bonus and advantages to it.
 
@neuric Nope. Most companies base your next pay by base pay and not OTE unless youre in sales which doesnt matter because most of your pay is in commissions until you get to director-ish level
 
@pastoruc Where did you get “most” from? Myself and everyone I know have never negotiated with base pay alone, only ever with total compensation.

Negotiating new offers with only your base pay is absurd and is absolutely not the norm.
 
@baltazaresguerra Ive changed jobs 4 times in Japan and sales roles ask your OTE whereas non sales roles ask your base because salary is paid in 14 months with extra months in june and december or some other similar schemes.

Edit: first time i changed was from sales to non sales, and because my base was low they only wanted to offer me 30% of my OTE at the time. I dont regret it and now make multiples of what i used to. It took a lot of work to get them not to pay me min wage at the time because my base was absurdly low
 
@neuric If this is an offer from a company named after a way of producing textiles, the offer isn’t strange, it’s just having to compete for talent with the US, where equity compensation is the norm and dramatically inflates on-paper salaries. That said, yes, your instinct is correct in that it is a form of cost control; they’re only committing to paying you ¥9.1M, so if the company has a down year, you will make less then the other offer.

This is a pretty standard risk to reward trade off. With the high bonus offer, you could make a lot more, but you could also make a lot less.

There are two other things to keep in mind:
1) Future employers will generally only truly value base salary when forming an offer for you should you switch companies down the line. And your base salary even at your current company will be the bases for all your future raises, should the company do raises. It would take 5 years of 3% raises for you to get to the same base salary as the other offer. So accepting a lower base salary now not only puts you at risk of making less now, but also at risk of making less later in your career.
2) While your base salary cannot be adjusted without cause, the bonus structure for a company as a whole can be. This recently happened at my company, and it resulted in significant theoretical pay cuts for many employees. So company performance aside, bonus compensation is less “secure” than base salary compensation.

I would make at least one more attempt to negotiate a higher base salary with the large bonus company if this is their first offer and you are excited by the work. No company comes with their best possible offer initially, it’s just not how the game is played. As others have pointed out, you should request additional information about the payment structure and evaluation criteria for the bonus. Do not mention your intention to negotiate at this point. Getting the information on the bonus structure provides a natural transition into negotiation on base salary, since almost certainly the bonus structure is based on both company and individual performance, and is likely not paid out all at once (if it is textile company, bonuses are granted annually and paid out over 3 years in 50%-25%-25% increments, so you don’t actually make the full notional compensation till year 3, and obviously you have to be still employed on payout date to get the money). This information may also simply come as part of the written offer, in which case you can skip right to the next step.

Once you get the details about the bonus structure, if I were you, I would reiterate your excitement about the possibility of working for the company. However, respectfully illustrate the that while you appreciate the potential for higher earnings from the large bonus, a 12% lower base salary relative to your other offer is a big gap in guaranteed money; bonus are only granted annually and are discretionary, so you cannot rely on them for day to day expenses. Counter with a number less than your other offer, but slight above what you are willing to actually accept; ¥10M if you’re willing to accept ¥9.75, etc. This shows them you value the potential upside and are willing to compromise, but shows that you value yourself and you have market data to prove that value in the form of the other offer. And gives them room to come back with less than you asked so they feel like they won, while still hopefully being at least as much as you wanted so you feel like you won.

The worst a company can say when you negotiate is no. They will not retract the offer, not on a first round negotiation done in good faith. And the only time in your career you have true leverage in salary negotiations is right now, when you have multiple offers and haven’t yet committed. So use that to your advantage, and you won’t have regrets later wondering if you could have made more.
 
@kampell Thanks for the advice! And no, this is not from the "textile" company and I will be interviewing with the "textile" company next Monday. Perhaps there could be a third offer on the table.
 
@neuric Ah, in that case asking about the bonus structure is also a convenient way to stall for time for you to get a third offer. Generally you only get one pushback in negotiation, so you want to have all the offers in hand to use as data when you do it.
 
@neuric I dunno if they'll mention it if you do get an offer from the textile company, but if it's the same textile company I'm thinking of, bonuses got a bit of a trim this past year. Try your hardest to get an L5/Senior offer, cuz it's reeeeal hard to get a promotion to L5 there.
 
@neuric With such a range, 8 months will probably be limited to very few employees, usually at the top of the hierarchy so I wouldn't count on it.

Keep in mind that bonuses are never guaranteed. A low base with high bonuses can easily be used against you to reduce your total income.

I'd definitely take the 10 millions.
 
@neuric 6 months bonus is possible, never heard of 8 months. Usually they calculate it based on fixed monthly base salary for a band, hence it will give higher number if the base is low.

Reg Taxes, no advantage. Fixed pay and bonuses are combined together to finalize annual taxes.
 

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