House in Italy/Spain with Swiss mortgage?

[elcamino]

Gruetzi! I’m an Italian living in Switzerland and I’ve been thinking about buying a house in Italy or Spain (still debating) as an investment and I was wondering whether taking a loan from a Swiss bank (vs local) would be feasible and advisable. Does anyone have any experience on this subject?

In particular:

1) Is it even possible to get a mortgage in CH to buy a property for rent in Italy/Spain? I’ve heard it might be if the bank has a subsidiary in the market where the house is located, but not 100% sure.

2) Is it possible to get a mortgage in EUR from a Swiss bank? If the CHF is growing stronger, then it might not be advisable to repay the debt in CHF when you could pay an increasingly cheaper mortgage payment in EUR (assuming I’m staying in CH and keep getting paid in CHF), does that make sense to you or am I missing something?

3) If you get a mortgage in EUR to buy a property in Italy, for example, can you benefit from the low Swiss rates or do you end up paying higher interests because a) it’s Italy and b) it’s in EUR?

Thank you so much to anyone able to help out

 

[xefere]

@elcamino compare complete license liquid ripe reminiscent dinosaurs mourn caption spectacular

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

 

[isbjorn995]

@xefere As another note, you can look for your target country banks with branches in Switzerland - this way you can do all the mortgage paperwork here . But the Kirtage it self will still be in your target country.

 

[elcamino]

@isbjorn995 thanks!

 

[elcamino]

@xefere Thank you! On your first point, clear. I was hoping there was a more structured way to handle this kind of loans.

On your second point, should have clarified my question better, for sure you pay higher than standard swiss rates (and for sure if you buy in EUR the rate reflects that) but does the fact that you reside in CH and have higher salary than an average Italian / lower risk profile have any impact on your rate or you think it would be pretty much the same as the rate you’d get at Santander or Intesa in Spain/Italy? Just trying to understand if any way to retain SOME of the Swiss benefits related to rates

 

[xefere]

@elcamino encouraging repeat ten flag rock oil slap gaping roof hurry

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

 

[elcamino]

@xefere Interesting, thanks! I think portugal might be a good proxy for southern europe in general. I assume even if such investment property is the first house that you buy that doesnt change much, correct?

 

[xefere]

@elcamino wine weary glorious ring station toy pocket consider license provide

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

 

[jerryklasic]

@elcamino You can get a mortgage in Spain as a foreigner. Max 70%

 

[hiev]

@elcamino There were a ton of Hungarians working in Hungaria and having a Swiss loan in CHF on there Hungarian house because of the low interest rates. That blew up dramatically. As far as I remember there was even the government involved and the dramatic Situation might even have helped Orban to get into the position he is today. That said - there is tight regulation these days about housing loans and the value and security of the property. If the bank gives loans in CHF, all costs are in CHF but the property is in Euro you and the bank are betting about the future value of Euro vs CHF. That's a big gamble on top of the bet, that a property in a certain region won't lose its value due to micro or macro economics, wars etc. But a local bank in Italy/Spain might lend you money based on your Swiss job and income.

 

[alkaloid]

@hiev The main issue wasn’t the chf denominated mortgage in Hungary instead that the banks never loaned chf just on paper and whenever the debtor paid in Huf they exchanged this Huf to eur than from eur to chf and they made the mortgage substantially more expensive than it should have been and combine this with 08 housing crisis many ended up owning more than what their assets worth deliberately where the banks risk management team knew the debtors can’t resist a market crash and despite this they loaned them, most those folks in todays banking system wouldn’t even been available to qualify for a mortgage

 

[elcamino]

@hiev Interesting thanks! Yeah all fair points, wasn’t aware of the above on Hungary though. I guess regulations have learnt to work against these arbitrages with time.

Fair point on the local banks recognizing a lower risk profile / higher income. I guess I need to get a few mortgage offers and find out… and report back here

 

[tommy2022]

@elcamino Hi , I am surprised of the answers you get. I know somebody who did it for a house in France in 2018. They found several Banks both in switzerland and in France who were ok for it.

One comment said it changed. If so it was after 2018.

I advise you to try. Ask several Banks and you will see.

 

[elcamino]

@tommy2022 thank you! yes I think I’m gonna investigate a bit, ask banks here and there and see what kind of mortgages they’d offer

 

[realizer]

@elcamino Se vai nei subreddit italiani sai subito che acquistare casa in Italia non é un investimento (almeno se pianifichi di metterla in affitto), questo per colpa delle leggi contro i landlord che abbiamo in Italia, l’alternativa sarebbe metterla come AirBNB ma é na rottura di palle.

 

[elcamino]

@realizer Ciao, grazie! Mi leggerò un po’ di subreddit italiani a riguardo. Intendi dire per problemi con chi ti entra in casa (tema contrattuale) o in tema di tasse / IMU / tasse sul reddito?

 

[realizer]

@elcamino Tema contrattuale, molti non pagano l’affitto ed é quasi impossibile buttarli fuori specialmente se hanno figli a carico o parenti disabili, il rapporto rischio/guadagno non é buono.

 

[elcamino]

@realizer Buon punto ed infatti è una delle considerazioni da fare, oltre al tema mutui. Io pensavo a città con target studenti, magari da fare contratti brevi e che ti permettano di selezionare meglio chi fai entrare in casa. Esempio Milano… mi ricordo che quando vivevo a Milano si andava in mille a visitare ‘ste case e sembrava di dover passare le selezioni per un’offerta di lavoro. Purtroppo però anche in famiglia da me abbiamo avuto esperienze simili, come dici tu. Meglio mettere su MSCI World + S&P e via?

L’intento è di diversificare e non fare solo azionario + bias (sbagliato ma pur sempre presente) del mattone che dura una vita vs stock market più labile.

 

[smta276603]

@elcamino Ti posso dire la mia esperienza, io ho un appartamento che affitto a canone concordato, e pago la cedolare secca al 10%.
Contratto 4+4, con persona affidabilissima.
In totale, direi che tolte le tasse (cedolare e IMU) mi entra un 2% del valore di acquisto.

Metti pure che avevo comprato a prezzo alto e i canoni concordati solo bassetti, però non è proprio una renditona.

Che poi basta che succeda qualsiasi stupidaggine e ci sia da rifare il muro del giardino, e il reddito di un anno se ne va.

 

[elcamino]

@smta276603 Grazie! Commento molto utile. Ma posso chiederti in che città (o se grande città vs provincia) e quanto di capitale upfront? (non capisco se hai fatto mutuo oppure no) 2% mi sembra in effetti basso / non così interessante, magari paghi anche tanto di interessi? ROI su capitale investito (invece che su valore d’acquisto) più o meno in che range sei?

Poi mi leggerò un po’ di subreddit a riguardo. Magari in Spagna / altri paesi è meglio

Non so per quale motivo ma l’idea di investire parte del patrimonio in mattone mi rassicura, probabilmente un bel bias e basta.