Getting a mechanic's opinion & inspection for a used is important, even if it's a Toyota/Honda

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kelvinkann

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Inspired by the 'shocking expenses' in this thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PersonalFinanceCanada/comments/13efy03

Here's what we're doing wrong when recommending a "Honda/Toyota/Subaru from the last 20 years". I work on cars and grew up in a family that owns garages, here's 2.5 easy steps...

1) GET AN INSPECTION: Yes, Toyota/Lexus are generally less problematic but still have some major issues... not to mention that suspension/bearings/exhaust/brakes/etc. that require repair after the 6-7 year mark.

Get the inspection to save yourself from thousands in wear items that need replacement... and I'll probably tell you to avoid the 07-09 4-cylinder Camry as well.

2) BUY SOMETHING FROM THIS LIST

If you have questions about why something was or wasn't recommended, feel free to chat in the comments section.
  • Small Sedan/Hatchback: 2014+ Mazda 3, 2013-15 Honda Civic, 2010+ Prius
  • Large Sedan: 2013+ Lexus ES, particularly the hybrid variant are very overbuilt. Interior holds up a lot better than the Camry.
  • Small SUV: 2013+ CX-5, 2017+ RAV4 (except 2019-2022 hybrid)
  • Midsize 2 row SUV: 2008+ Lexus RX350, 2003+ Toyota 4Runner or GX470, W164/166 ML without AIRMATIC or diesel
  • 3 rows: 2010+ Sienna with 3.5 or very recent Honda Odyssey (10 speed trans only)
  • Midsize Truck: NOT the Tacoma, but the Nissan Frontier
  • Fullsize Truck: 2.7/3.5/5.0 equipped F-150, avoid the 4.6/5.4.
  • Luxury Sedan: W204 C-class, G20 330/M340, Lexus ES300h or 350/LS430
  • Sporty: R171/172 MB SLK, C5/6/7 Corvette (excluding C7 Gran Sport), ND Mazda MX-5, or 2016+ Dodge Charger/Challenger (all engines ok)
3) DON'T BUY ANYTHING ON THIS LIST

Honda/Acura to avoid
  • Fit: Leaking issues are quite serious with the 1st generation.
  • Civic: Avoid early 7th and 8th gen due to paint, engine, rust, and transmission issues. 10th gen cars have the A/C compressor placed in a very easily damageable spot. 3k+ of repairs are inevitable.
  • Accord: Avoid 7th gen V6 due to transmission, steering rack, and potentially front control arms, 8th gen V6 due to oil burning engine, 9th gen 4 cyl due to major starter/air conditioning issues. 2-3k+ repairs guaranteed.
  • Pilot/Odyssey: V6 transmission issues and expensive timing belt replacements.
  • CR-V: 2014/15 have vibration issues, 2017+ with the 1.5 Turbo are problematic with oil dilution in cold climates
  • MDX: Avoid all 1st gen and refreshed 2nd gen due to transmission issues (guaranteed failure)
  • TL: Avoid 3rd gen due to transmission failure (except 07/08), avoid 4th gen due to 3.5/3.7L oil consumption issues requiring engine rebuild
  • All models post 2007 with EBD eat up their rear brake pads and often have their calipers seize.
Toyota/Lexus to avoid
  • Every 2.5L Toyota from 2007-2012 needs an engine rebuild (Corolla XRS, TC, Camry, RAV4, etc.)
  • Every early 3.5L V6 Toyota often requires water pump, oil cooler line replacement, later model years are great.
  • RAV4: 2008-12 V6 has AWD issues, 2013-15 had transmission issues, 2019-22 Hybrid had a $4k battery cable issues that's not considred under warranty until very recently.
  • Camry: the 2007 model the other guy had 9k of repairs on was particularly problematic for
All Subaru, almost anything Nissan.

That said, if you own something on this list and have done well - congratulations! Statistically, there will be some cars of a bad model that haven't been troublesome. Anything on list #3 is there cuz statistically, they're more prone to go bad
 
@kelvinkann I'm very curious as to why a 1993 FD RX-7 was not part of this list?

But also, if it's not already clear to everyone, I should point out that this list is not very car enthusiast friendly - for the most part, it's exclusively for point A to point B drivers.
 
@starspray My '96 Firebird Trans Am was like that. Bought at 68k km, first engine rebuild at 128k, second replacement ~4 years later. Couple transmission rebuilds/replacements in there too. Got the service records at some point, and they had to have both head gaskets replaced at 5k.
 
@snafuy IMO even the "recommendation" list should get an inspection, super easy for some shocks/wheel bearings/brakes/general wear items eat a 1k hole in your wallet.

The "do not buy stuff" comes with inevitable 3-4k repairs.... which are fine if you're budgeting for it
 
@kelvinkann Second Gen Fit usually suffers from loose spark plugs, which kills the coil pack. Honda issued a TSB or whatever saying to torque the spark plugs to 20 lb-fts instead of the stock 14. Long as the head wasn't damaged this usually takes care of it. I've done about $400 of repairs on my '10 in 13 years of ownership, and most of it was the coil pack replacement because it was -25C that day and I wasn't touching it.

The rear hatch handle tends to rust as well, it's not a terrible replacement, just haven't gotten around to that yet.

Early 3rd gen Fit has poor soldering on the instrument panel, fixable but a pain in the ass. Don't know the rest of the car, just hear about that one a lot.
 
@ayberk22 Hondas and coil packs, name a more dynamic duo 😂

Interesting to know about the 3rd gen Fit's soldering issues - is there a ship-in/ship-out vendor doing the fix these days?
 
@kelvinkann At least they're stupid easy to fix. I've had my plugs and coil packs off and on in 15 minutes, including looking for my sockets.

Don't know on the soldering. Just see it on the forums now and then with people having it glitch in the cold.
 
@kelvinkann Nothing wrong with buying a Nissan if you can budget 8k for a new transmission every 80,000km.

I'm glad owning a Nissan was a cheap lesson for me.

I'll stick with Mazdas. Just bought a CX-5 that I love.
 
@leafis Mazda CX-5 was notorious for transmission issues and engine failure, especially the 2016 models.

As with every consumer product these days, they’re basically built to fail. All we can do is proper maintenance and take care of it in hopes that it doesn’t fail us.

I bought a 2020 Honda Pilot which was rated as one of the more reliable models compared to the 2016-18 ones, and it had a failed PCM module the 2nd time I started the car.
 
@kelvinkann Another person parroting the LS430 just cause that's what they heard on videos and forums and have probably seen 5 in real life when they're all 20 years old at this point and basically clapped out. They are reliable, but based on old Toyota architecture before the N platform and don't have a ton going on. Tons of people thinking they can just beat the piss out of those things and neglect them for them to run. 3UZ-FE also needs timing belts. The LS460? I have an '07. Considered an absolute dud right? Control arms, ML amp, melting dash. The list goes on. Mine's been rock solid. First production 8 speed automatic, 380HP UR engine that's smooth as glass, no air ride, SWB. Has radar cruise and automatic parking too. They built that to fight the Germans so of course it needs more attention than a Camry.

Honda oil dilution in the 1.5T? What's happened with that? Nothing. No engine has ever seized and thrown a rod. Just someone who noticed a little bit with a catch can on the forums initially and people think they're some black mark. I have a 2016 Touring with that engine that's still going strong. Nothing has happened.

RAV4 Hybrid 'Cablegate'. The one medical courier on Facebook that has 400k miles on it as of this month (600k kms, SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND) had it go. Nobody is avoiding those models for this issue when they're driving 15-20k a year and when it gets 40mpg. There's nothing that compares, period.
 
@coreyd 430 Owner here. Interesting data point on your LS. Great to hear that! Thanks posting. I already have a spare set of '12 rims in the basement. Waiting for the right 460. Hard to fine one.

What seems to be missing in a lot of these posts is the effect of location and associated road salt. We have 3 Japanese built Toyota/Lexus's and corrosion is the biggest problem for all three.

Our very well maintained LS430 needed a new gas tank after about 15 years because it was completely rusted through. That is a $1500 part. Now include dropping the drive shaft and exhaust system to install it. That is an expensive repair. However, this car never saw any salt in its first 10 years of life. I just had to repair the doors because they were corroded through. This is with Krown/Fluid Film application.

The maintenance log on our LS is 10+ pages long. Some examples: 3 timing belts + water pumps, 2 sets of front wheel bearings, 1 set of rear wheel bearings, gas tank, caster bushings, inner and outer tie-rod ends etc. The aluminum calipers are great and require very little maintenance. First set of rotors lasted over 300,000 km. So I bought OEM again!

I am surprised the GX made it on the 'buy' list. All exhaust manifolds crack and they are integrated with the catalytic converter. That is over $3000 in parts for L&R. Our GX eats front calipers for breakfast as the inside lower piston always seizes. I also had to replace the rear electronic (!) shocks and they are probably around $1000 each. Wheel bearings, AF's sensors and the Achilles' heel: alternators. The list goes on and on. Oh and once the air-injection system fails (when, not if) then $$$, unless you purchase a cheat-device.

Quoting factory parts here (or Denso, Aisin). These vehicles are 'reliable' because of quality parts. It makes no sense to use anything but factory parts. You should be prepared to buy parts outside of Canada because there seems to be some serious price gouging going on here.
 
@jcon1150 Ah, let me get to work on adding some EVs to the list - truth be told, we don't see very many of them.

The Model 3 is "generally fine" until "parts you don't think about go wrong + Tesla service centers" make it a headache to deal with.

I'd probably be in a Model 3/i4/Ioniq 5 if I were looking for an EV.
 
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