Finally got my Degiro account approved - need advice on planning my finances as an Indian living in AUT

lovegod033

New member
Hey everyone, I turned 30 this year and am looking for some help and advice on planning my financial future out. I am an Indian citizen living and working in Austria (currently have a Rot-Weiß-Rot Plus Karte, will hopefully have a Daueraufenthaltstitel from 2022). I “worked” here from 2015 to 2018 (PhD students count as employees), was unemployed for about a year (who’d have thought finding a job after getting a PhD in comparative cognition would be hard?), found a job in mid-2019, and now have a permanent contract. Fortunately, I am currently 100% debt-free and have no financial dependents.

I plan to settle here with my partner (she is Austrian) and the only “family” we plan to have pets (we've already taken measures to ensure mini humans aren't a possibility).
  • Our short-term goal is to buy an electric car. Specifically, we would like to buy a Tesla Model Y. I sold my petrol car off as it made no sense throwing money at a sinking ship (I spent more than the car’s buying price on driving and maintaining it, it didn’t sit well with our sustainability priorities nor with our plans of having pets). We currently use public transport, but this is hella inconvenient (and expensive) when leaving the city (we travel to my partner’s family’s house every weekend and driving would certainly be more convenient and economical). All holiday and travel plans have been postponed till after we have the Tesla. We intend to drive the car to its death.

    EDIT: Most comments are about how I cannot afford this car on my salary. While I'm sure this comes from a good place, an excellent addition would be helping me understand what I should aim for if I want to afford it. Ultimately, it IS a goal I want to meet, and the reason I'm posting here is to find out how to meet my goals.
  • Our mid- to long-term goal is to buy or build our own house. We’re tending towards building as we want to put together something that’s as self-sustaining, ecologically responsible and technologically thought-out as possible; as these things don’t seem to be priorities for people building houses here, it’s unlikely we could buy a house that would fit our priorities. Since we cannot move from our rented flat in the city (for various reasons), this goal is slated for between 4 and 10 years from now (ideally after the car is paid off). Unfortunately, I have no idea what a reasonable target should be.
  • The long-term goal is naturally having some sort of a steady income to supplement whatever retirement income comes in from social security. Again, no idea what a reasonable target should be for this.
For the past couple of years, I have been aggressively saving for the car. It currently costs €66,000 including various overheads like shipping costs and import duties (it’s produced in the US and shipped to EU). The Tesla community seems to think that this price will reduce once the car is produced at the upcoming German factory, but I will use 66k as a target – if it goes down, well and good. Yes, I know it's stupid expensive. We've been talking about this and have looked into several EVs. Unfortunately, nothing seems to come close to what this one has to offer. Ultimately, I guess we are paying an "early adopter tax".

I will take a 5-year loan for €35,000 at 0% interest (it’s part of the push for more EVs) to finance the car, meaning I will need to pay €31,000 upfront (I anticipate having to do this 11 to 14 months from now) and €584 a month for 60 months.

I currently make €1,850 a month after taxes. My monthly expenses are under €900 so I end up putting anywhere between €300 and €1,000 away each month. I have approx. €20,000 already put away and should be able to do another €10,000 by next summer. About €9,600 of this amount is invested across 43 different Indian mutual funds (accounting for COVID-19 market crashes, currency conversion, transfer fees, and 31.25% Indian TDS - taxes deducted at source). The rest is sitting in our savings accounts. The MF gains range from -20% (aren’t pandemics just lovely?) to +23% (healthcare funds during pandemics = STONKS). Overall, my portfolio is currently down about 5%.

I have been so focussed on the car that I haven’t made significant progress towards the other two goals. I have a total of about ₹220k (€2,000-ish) invested across 32 Indian mutual funds (also down about 5%). Henceforth, I want to reduce my reliance on Indian mutual funds as I lose money in currency conversion and exchange fees. Now that I have access to degiro (and eventually flatex, whenever they get around to verifying me), how can I optimize my investments to meet my financial goals?

I have been thinking of buying some Tesla and AMD stock (partly because they’re companies I’d like to support), but I’m not sure how big of a chunk of my savings should go there and what all I should be aware of when buying. I’ve been reading up on ETFs and I gather that they are somewhat similar to MFs and are also quite frequently recommended. Would investing any of my car savings here make sense?

My company recently had a broker as a client and I worked on that project; I learned a plethora of new words – knockouts, derivatives, options, calls, puts, stop-loss, etc. I never knew any of this existed and am curious what of it is worth looking into with my goals in mind. My only investment experience is with mutual funds.

Any advice from y’all would be appreciated! Please let me know if there are any details I should provide, and I’ll update this post with them. Finally, one small detail – while I can communicate in German, I am still at somewhere around B1-B2. I absolutely cannot decipher financial or legal lingo (heck navigating this stuff in English is tricky!). I’ve made an account on degero IE so that I can do everything in English.
 
@lovegod033 A thing regarding Degiro - do not use it.

It is not "steuereinfach", meaning you have to do your taxes for it by yourself. You need to figure out A LOT of German language legal lingo, which you say yourself you are not quite capable of. Get Flatex or dad.at, they do your taxes for you.

Source: I am Austrian
 
@nelsonnoah Oh and two follow ups to this:
  1. When say they do the taxes for you, does that mean that when you pull your investments out, they deduct whatever is to be deducted and give you the "Netto" so you don't have to bother declaring any profits when filing tax returns and stuff?
  2. I know the German FlatEx site is available in English - would it make a difference if I used the German website? Would taxes still be taken care of?
 
@lovegod033
  1. yes, everything is done for you. However, there is a smallish part - due to double taxation you are entitled to get some parts of the tax back (withholding tax, "Quellensteuer"). the witholding tax basically shoots your capital taxrate up to ~40%, if you use single stocks from outside Austria (e.g. Tesla, AMD, VW). this is a HUGE hassle and doesn't really work. you have the same problem with Degiro as well however. Best to buy European based MSCI World ETFs and don't do single stocks, especially from outside the EU. That's just the way it is, investing sucks in the EU
  2. as long as you're using flatex.at (not .de) everything is fine
 
@nelsonnoah Hey! Would you recommend accumulating or distributing ETFs for Austrian taxes? Our system is not like Germany is it, and we just get taxed a broad capital gains tax of 27,5%?
 
@nelsonnoah This is a good pointer. Thank you. So then would you say that waiting for a few years and building up to that 66k and paying for it in cash instead of taking a loan would be the better idea? Or am I misunderstanding something?
 
@lovegod033 There are various rules of thumb regarding cars - one is that it should not cost more than 1/4 of you annual take home pay (a rule I live by as well). Get your income up. Until then drive old beaters, it's simply the financially responsible way to go.

Get a tesla when you're 45.
 
@lovegod033 I live in Amsterdam so my answer is probably "no car is worth it unless it has no important impact on your savings". I've been toying around with the idea of buying a car myself, but I always end up deciding it's not worth the financial effort.
 
@lovegod033
[...] About €9,600 of this amount is invested across 43 different Indian mutual funds [...] (€2,000-ish) invested across 32 Indian mutual funds [...]

Am I reading that correct as you're invested in 75 different funds at the same time? Seventy-fucking-five funds? With a total of less than 12k €? Why?
 

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