FATCA Compliance without a TIN?

[cheetawakeboarder]

My banks are asking me to complete the FATCA form to send back to the IRS but I don't have a TIN or SSN as I left the US before I got any of these. Does any one know which form I need to fill out instead to maybe show I don't need pay tax in the US or similar?

Background info:

I was born in the US but when i was four months old, my family (with me) moved back to Europe and we resided in between Sweden and the UK and I've used my Swedish passport ever since.

 

[sunnimoreno]

@cheetawakeboarder A few follow up questions for you that should help clarify your situation...

How does the bank know you're a US citizen?

Do you have a US birth certificate?

Do you have a US passport (yes I am aware this is a travel doc and not related to citizenship)?

Are you planning on registering for an SSN?

And why do you think you don't need to pay (or file) tax in the US?

 

[cheetawakeboarder]

@sunnimoreno Thanks for your response! See below.

How does the bank know you're a US citizen?

Because when I signed up I have to say my date of birth and location. I'm a US citizen by birth.

Do you have a US birth certificate?

Yes.

Do you have a US passport (yes I am aware this is a travel doc and not related to citizenship)?

I hold an expired US passport of me has a 3 month old baby.

Are you planning on registering for an SSN?

No. Only if the law/compliance requires me to.

And why do you think you don't need to pay (or file) tax in the US?

Because I've spent my life outside of the US living and working in the UK which has a agreement with the US I believe.

 

[sunnimoreno]

@cheetawakeboarder Yes, those are the answers I expected...

You're basically Boris Johnson. He was born in the US to Brits and left when he was 5. As a UK citizen you must remember when he had to pay tax to the IRS when he sold a London property? Here's the story on CNN.

From the IRS:

"If you are a U.S. citizen or resident living or traveling outside the United States, you generally are required to file income tax returns, estate tax returns, and gift tax returns and pay estimated tax in the same way as those residing in the United States."

Details from the IRS here: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/int...zens-and-residents-abroad-filing-requirements

Basically, what I'm getting at is you probably do have a legal requirement to file taxes, report foreign bank accounts, and tell the IRS all of your financial secrets... because you are a US citizen!

EDIT: The US does have "foreign earned income exclusion" that is roughly USD 120k per year. So you don't pay tax on anything below that. Above that is a different story. But like you said, tax treaties should help you. I'm not really saying you need to pay tax... but you almost certainly need to file and will therefore need an SSN. Or, maybe, you can look into renouncing instead.

I'm sure there are hundreds of specialist accountants that will gladly charge you lots of money to navigate the whole situation and eventually tell you it's time to renounce your citizenship to simplify your life... I just hope you have less than 2mm in assets and you're not a covered expat because that gets expensive.

Also, if you don't mind, I do have one other question:

Did the bank automatically know you were a US citizen? Or did you tell list US citizenship in the "other citizenship" section of the application?

 

[tyler112]

@cheetawakeboarder As you were born in the US and have not renounced your citizenship, you are a US citizen (even without US passport or SSN).

As a citizen you are required to file W9 with FFI, and also to file 1040 each year, unless worldwide gross income is less than about $13k filing single. You likely will not owe any back-taxes due to FEIE and/or FTC, but most expats are still required to file returns even with nothing owing. Also FBAR if aggregate balance in foreign accounts is $10k, and foreign disclosures like 3250, 8621, 8938, 8858, 5471, etc as applicable.

If you do not have an SSN, you may apply for one for free.

If you have been non-compliant on your US taxes and FBAR, SFOP is available to you; it's 3 years of returns, 6 of FBAR, plus a cover page, and if successful means a waiver of penalties.

There are also pathways to renounce if you so choose.

Continuing to "stay off the IRS' radar" is a balance of risks that you bear responsibility for, but I would not advise it.