College Son Calls It Life Hacking

[megkh22]

I still can't believe this but hear me out.

My son is at college and just started a work-study job to make a few bucks. He works for the University call center and reminds high school/college kids to pay their various fees. He gets paid $8.50 an hour. This job is SUPER flexible -- You only have to work 1-4 hours around your class schedule. Just clock in so your time and clock out. He does it in-between classes.

Anyways he was busy one week and was able to only work 1 hour on certain days. Don't quote me on the minutes here, but somehow the boy figured out that if you clock in at 1:29pm and clock out at 2:31pm you get paid for a FULL two hours! He tried it a few times and his pay stub does show two hours worked on those 61+ minutes shifts. He offered to show me his paystub that he gets paid $17 for 61+ minutes of work

I find this VERY hard to believe that payroll software basic math would allow this to happen!

We talked about integrity, ethics, right vs wrong. He asked me what he was doing that is wrong on his actions, how is he committing fraud by his actions and that is how their payroll system works. I was kinda speechless and didn't know what to say at the moment. He then told me something along the lines of "Gen Z Life Hacking Skills" and that I am too old to totally understand.

I still honestly can't believe this regarding basic payroll processing. Any experts in payroll have any comments?

 

[starlightviolet199]

@megkh22 I tried this when I was at my first job in high school. It had a similar system where the 30 minute break only logged as 15 if you start/stopped at the right time.

This kind of thing gets audited all the time. It might work for a bit, but he's going to get caught eventually or the system will change. He might owe money back.

 

[stansixsixsix]

@starlightviolet199 Unless he’s defrauding the system, I’m not sure money is due.

 

[ilovebilliejoearmstrong]

@stansixsixsix Would depend on the various local laws, but typically overpayments made through an earnest mistake can be clawed back by the employer.

Also, now that they know this is how it works and are intentionally taking advantage of the flaw it's become fraud. It would also be hard to argue that OPs kid was unaware of this if they are consistently logging shifts of that span or close to it.

 

[maggiebells]

@stansixsixsix Cheating/lying for financial gain = fraud. It's literally the definition.

 

[stansixsixsix]

@maggiebells If the system is doing it for everyone, and there isn’t policy directed to not logout in such a fashion, there’s no way it could be reclaimed.

The burden is not going to be on the employee.

 

[maggiebells]

@stansixsixsix Time theft occurs when employees get paid for hours they don't actually work. It's as simple as that. This deceptive behavior happens when employees deliberately misrepresent their work hours, resulting in unearned wages and causing productivity and financial loss. This is virtually stealing money from the organization and may be considered fraud.

 

[stansixsixsix]

@maggiebells Cheating is not playing by the rules, lying is recording false time. Being knowledgeable is neither.

Most systems use actual minutes, partition on the minute of a quarter hour or round at the tenths in accumulation. This is not the case.

 

[fab01]

@stansixsixsix You’re wrong. I’m in employment law

 

[stansixsixsix]

@fab01 Sweet, what would be the grounds or incriminating specifics?

 

[fab01]

@stansixsixsix It’s not necessarily something they could/would prosecute over, but 100% a fireable offense, and at a university the clear pattern of intentional exploitation is bad since they have more discretion over this kid than a random company.

 

[mkelly1075]

@fab01 I'm not sure if you or the other guy you are debating is correct, but you did just shift the goal posts pretty hard in your argument.

You went from this is "fraud and time theft" to "he could be fired for this."

Well if you are in employment law as you claim to be, I'm sure you realize that there's a good chance OP is an at-will employee meaning they can be fired for literally anything that isn't a legally protected form of discrimination or other rare exception like retaliation for whistleblowing.

 

[maggiebells]

@stansixsixsix The employee knows the deal is they need to work a full 2 hours to get paid the two hours. Anything less is theft. It won't hold up in a court of law. You think this is new? Non-exempt employees have been abusing the clock to get paid extra since the dawn of time. It may work for a while, but cheating never works in the long run. Eventually, cheaters get caught and punished. It is inevitable. Don't be so naïve.

At best, the employee doesn't get caught and nothing happens. The employee won't learn a thing, and do it again at their next job, etc. Until they are eventually caught and dealt with. Except the punishment will only be greater as they are older with a lot more responsibility at that point in time.

At worst, they will get terminated and possibly sued for time theft. Now they lost their job and any good will from the employer. Now they cannot use them as a reference on their resume.

Both outcomes are fucked. The moral of the story? Don't lie/steal/cheat.

 

[bpps]

@stansixsixsix If a bank deposits cash into your account by mistake and you spend it all, they will demand payment or jail time.

 

[katlee21]

@bpps You can't get jail time for what would amount to owing a debt unless they take you to court and you refuse a court-order. Yes they have a legal claim to the money, but spending an overpayment is not the same as theft...that would be insane for a lot of people who are pretty careless with money. It's just a debt at that point.

 

[omega52]

@stansixsixsix The burden will 1,000% be on the employee, even if they were ignorant to this trick (which they aren’t). Any financial error in your benefit can be clawed back. The only thing to wonder is whether or not they would figure that out.

 

[megz088]

@megkh22 As long as he’s ok with being fired on the spot if someone finds out I guess he may think it’s worth rolling the dice…he should just make sure that the work study isn’t tied to any other financial aid he qualified for.

Right now making $17 without working probably feels great to him, but if it could lead to him being disqualified from the rest of his grants/loans it’s a dumb chance to take IMO.

 

[lilnyaks]

@megz088 He also should worry about whatever honor code or ethics system the university observes. At my school, this sort of thing could have resulted in expulsion.

 

[valariahopper]

@lilnyaks Well as a former student caller, most of these services are now outsourced and managed by a separate vendor. The university doesn't employ you, now Wilson Technologies or Bennett Fundraising Services does.

 

[juan08861]

@valariahopper I wouldn't classify this as a win. Students constantly get punished by the school for things they do in their personal lives... I.e. suspension or expulsion for getting found at a bar or with a fake ID. This is something that is completely NOT the colleges business. With a job at the college doing college things, getting paid by the college (or outsourced company or what-have-you), OP will definitely face some consequences for wage theft and time fraud. Yeah, that's only $17 that "Wilson tech" lost... But the college pays "Wilson tech" $18 to outsource.