Car purchase: Is buying a 2-3 years old Toyota still the most rational decision?

[kmoreno]

Hi,

FIRE subreddits used to recommend to buy 2-3 years old Toyotas.

Do you think this is still the best advice today?

In the past few years:

- used cars (especially Toyota) have gotten much more expensive,

- 'cheaper' brand have risen in quality standards (Dacia Sandero/Stepway),

- gas prices increased and hybrid cars may be more frugal,

- manufacturer offer better guarantees (e.g. 5 years, 100,000km).

I was first thinking of buying a 2019-2020 used Toyota Corolla or Yaris (both hybrid). Then i saw that I can save 40% by purchasing a Dacia Sandero Stepway (petrol). Even with the fuel costs, the difference is huge between the two options.

Here is some more info about my situation:

- Budget: 20 Keur maximum. I do not currently own a car.

- Location: Luxembourg.

- Expect to drive 10,000 km/year (15 km commuting both ways, weekly groceries, occasional short trip).

- My girlfriend has a small 10 yo car which she uses for her daily commute. We plan to have a kid in the next 2-3 years.

Thanks for your help!

 

[rez]

@kmoreno This was already said in the top comment , but Toyota and Honda are the mainstays of US aimed advice. They make good cars, but the advice does not necessarily apply to every region. Availability of spare parts, aggregate servicing knowledge and experience by non-dealership mechanics and resale value all factor in.

For example, French cars have an atrocious reputation in the former USSR, while German cars, especially older VW/VAG cars are seen as very reliable. At the same time, VWs are seen as unreliable and expensive to maintain in the US.

I'd suggest looking at what the most common brands sold in your domestic market/s are and focus on those. You don't really want to be stuck with an "exotic" car once it gets older.

Also, I can't recall which site I grabbed this from, but this purportedly is the reliability record of cars insured in Sweden:

Imgur

 

[kmoreno]

@rez Thank you for bringing a different perspective.

It is interesting to see Dacia and Kia scoring better in reliability than the german or expensive brands.

Let me add a stereotype to the list: for many french people italian cars are supposed to be less reliable

The Luxembourg car market is dominated by german brands which are seen as a status symbol for some people. If i dont buy a car from a very niche brand, i ll buy fine. So anything japanese, south korean, romanian, french, german will have plenty of repair shops.

 

[one1]

@rez I wouldn't agree with the VW comparison. They are expensive and unreliable everywhere. Just because it's a common car in a certain market doesn't make it more reliable and cheaper.

Toyota's across the world are very reliable. The most common car appears to be a Corolla.

A 4 year old Toyota that you can keep for 10 years or more is the best choice irrelevant of where you live. If you get a hybrid version, they tend to be far cheaper on road tax and better fuel economy.

 

[oydai]

@one1 Older VW’s with the 1.9 liter diesel are pretty reliable.

 

[hummel2]

@oydai These 1.9 are old engines that fail any modern emission standards, I wouldn't buy it for nothing, it's completely outdated in every sense

 

[oydai]

@hummel2 Right, that doesn’t change the fact that they are reliable

 

[one1]

@oydai Compared to a Toyota d4d of the same year? The VW are far less reliable.

 

[ecumeni]

@oydai I had one of these. The engine is powerful, economical bulletproof. Problem is that everything else falls apart.

 

[spst]

@kmoreno Did you go on a test drive? I don't think being rational matters so much if you don't like the car and how it drives. Also check out the interior and if you like it, since that's where you'll be spending most of your time (IMO the interior of an entry-level Toyota is not better than a Dacia's).

I think the reasoning behind buying a Toyota is that it's reliable and it most likely won't break down. Dacia has really cheap parts and you can assume it will be reliable in the first years of ownership, plus it will be in warranty. So it all breaks down to whether you like the Dacia.

Also not sure if paying more for a hybrid is worth it for 10.000km/year.

Edit: I think those FIRE subreddits recommend Toyota because they are US based and Toyota is much more popular there than in Europe.

 

[kmoreno]

@spst I did not try the cars yet. I wanted to make a shortlist 'on paper' first based on the car specs only.

I assume that the interior from the Toyotas will be much better than the Dacia ones. But is it worth 8K? I am not sure.

You are entirely right about hybrid not being worth it. I need to do the math but at a glance it would take me +10 years in fuel costs to offset the price difference.

 

[spst]

@kmoreno Just go and see them. I was very disappointed in the interior of Toyotas back when I was searching for a car and went to a lot of dealerships, this is why I say it’s on par with Dacias (not to say Dacia is great, just that Toyota was bad). Not saying anything about the reliability, which I’m sure is great. Just take some time and go see several brands yourself, looking at pictures isn’t the same. Also don’t forget about the safety aspect, Dacias are not that good with safety (check euroncap).

 

[kmoreno]

@spst I will go to some car dealerships this week.
I just avoid these places like the plague as i am clueless about cars and i feel like no geniune information will be given to me by the staff.

You are correct in raising the topic of safety. I will never make any compromise about it. I'll check the ratings but i ll still be cautious about it. Rating agencies are often corrupt...

 

[donthebaptist]

@kmoreno At least for me Hybrid has much lower tax rates and i have free parking in a lot of places. Depending on your local conditions you would offset the cost much faster

 

[jayjayx]

@kmoreno Dacia is not well known for its reliability. After just a few years, the only parts you can get are Chinese knockoffs, which are always a gamble. A friend of mine recently had to go to the junkyard to buy parts from a totaled vehicle because the Chinese copy just didn't work.

The maintenance costs of a cheap car are not just the parts, but labor(which is not cheap in Luxembourg), as well as your wasted time.

I would rather pay more to get a car that I can forget and just drive. I have a 19 year old Corolla which I bought at 4 years old, and it had nothing except for oil and filter changes.

The Dacia will only be fine if you buy it new and are fine with the loss of value. Buying a used car from a cheap brand is risky.

 

[kmoreno]

@jayjayx You make some really good points. While i am pretty much into frugal living and Fire style of living, i value my time and peace of mind more than a few thousands.

I thought that buying a Dacia would allow me not to worry about scratches and dents. As you pointed out if the car is not reliable i would be anxious to use it much or i would be frustrated by frequent trips to the repair shop.

 

[prayerwarriorjd]

@kmoreno Hi

Buying any car that is a few years old is still the best way to go. Personally I buy most of mine with 2-3 years of age and low miles, under 20k. You do not take the depreciation hit and you still buy what is a pretty new car. I recommend checking out the insurance quotes before you buy a car. That is an extra cost that most only find out after they buy the car. Japanese is still the best to buy for reliability but South Korean is gaining fast. They are not flashy or cool though. So be aware of what you want and how much you will love or hate driving it.

sincerely,

YT Professor Choy

 

[kmoreno]

@prayerwarriorjd Thank you for your response!
I got 2 insurance quotes for a dacia sandero stepway and a toyota corolla and... there is only a 40eur per year difference (1000eur vs 1040).
I had the impression that the 2-3 year old cars were getting more expensive. Perhaps it is only my impression since i did not shop for a car for more than 7 years.
I'll look into the south korean brands. If you have any specific model you recommend please feel free to share

 

[prayerwarriorjd]

@kmoreno Hi

No, no real recommendations. Unless you are in a rush to buy you can also research the reliability scores. Good luck!

 

[kmoreno]

@prayerwarriorjd Thank you, and i wish you a great success with your YT channel!