Budget for 70k-80k

[xc37]

I saw this post https://www.reddit.com/r/askswitzerland/s/zWy8YGM1mM of a family living on 75k. Assuming this is netto, could someone give me a budget breakdown how would you live for 75k?

 

[regret_living]

@xc37 We live for about 100k incl a plane holiday for 4 out of europe, drive a mercedes and pay a kita half time. So i guess its definitely not so hard to do if not holidaying out of europe and not owning a car.

 

[kufe]

@regret_living Well rent is quite a big factor... also if you habe help or not from your parents

 

[regret_living]

@kufe 75k is about 6.something k a month. So lets say rent is 2k, healthcare 1k, groceries 1k - then there is still 2k left (travel, nice things, kid courses etc maybe?)

You may be right that its hard if you would pay 3k+ for an appartment.

 

[eloise]

@regret_living

1. Where do you live?
2. How much is rent?
3. 100k is including your passing income?

I don’t really see how 100k is cutting it especially including Kita and driving a Benz

 

[acad]

@xc37 So assuming 75k Netto = 6250/mt (OR 5770/mt *13 Payments)Assuming Family = Grown Ups and 2 Kids.

Go to https://budgetberatung.ch/familien and download the file BB_Familie_2K.pdf. For the sake of simplicity listed below.

That is quite a tight budget though... Not sure if you can find a place to rent for 1600 that fits a family of 4.

Fixkosten:

Wohnen: 1600

Steuern: 210

Krankenversicherung KVG (ohne Prämienverbilligung): 980

Hausrat-, Privathaftpflichtversicherung: 40

Telefonie, Internet, TV, Serafe: 200

Elektrizität: 120

ÖV: 320

3470 Fixkosten

Haushalt:

Nahrungsmittel, alkoholfreie Getränke 900

Nebenkosten: 170

(Körperpflege, Wasch- und Reinigungsmittel, Entsorgungskosten, sonstige Kleinigkeiten, Coiffure Kinder) 660 Haushalt

Persoenliche Ausgaben:

2x Erwachsene: Kleider, Schuhe 180

Coiffure, Freizeit, Taschengeld 240

2x Kinder : Kleider, Schuhe 160

Freizeit, Taschengeld 80

780 Persoenliche Ausg.

Rueckstellungen:

Minimale Franchise, Anteil Selbstbehalt: 100

Augen-, Zahnkontrolle 80

Geschenke 70

gemeinsame Freizeit, Schule, Lager 100

Unvorgesehenes (Reserve) 120

780 Rueckstellungen

Verfuegbarer Betrag:

Kinderbetreuung, berufsbedingte auswärtige Verpflegung,

Zusatzversicherung VVG, elektronische Geräte, Weiterbildung,

Vorsorge, Haustiere, Sparen, Auto, Ferien usw. 330 Verfuegbarer Betrag

TOTAL/MT 6000

 

[renestiatco]

@acad taxes that low? maybe i am just doing something wrong lol

 

[virtualhope]

@renestiatco Yes, they seem to be very low. But maybe families can deduct so much that they end up with 20k taxable income?

 

[teriinnevada]

@virtualhope You can deduct Kita costs up to a point but I think only if both parents are working. I would assume 75k would be one income however. If this family had younger kids then they may also receive heavy subvention in terms of KiTa costs, due to low income.

 

[micah111]

@teriinnevada And not to forget that the tax rate for married people is a lot lower. This often is equalised by a higher progression . But here with 75k that’s not the case.

 

[teriinnevada]

@micah111 Yes, at higher income levels, especially if you’re earning similar amounts it does not pay to be married!

 

[nathaneal]

@acad 10 years ago in canton SO we had a nice modernly renovated flat with 5.5 rooms for 1100. So surely you can get one for 1600 now. Food and Haushaltskosten and clothing seems way too high in that example, coiffure is even counted 2 seperate times

 

[purpurin]

@acad Fielman macht gratis check für auge

 

[resjudicata]

@acad 1600 rent is impossible maybe in the mountains

 

[dichvuthongtaccong]

@xc37 Lol, 1600 wohnen, 210 steuern. Get a grip. 4.5 room apartments in Bern and agglo below 2k is delusional. I pay 15% taxes although we have a kid, wife at home with the kid, so no kita and I can make the full kinderabzug. I have a säule 3a and pay in the full amount. 1k in geoceries is doable for 3 but thight for 4 I‘d say. I have a good salary but hardly anything to set aside beyond säule 3a. Good thing passive income exist. Blessed in that regard. If you‘re not so lucky to have that, good luck with 6k net a month in a Steuerhölle like Bern.

 

[phyllisgault]

@dichvuthongtaccong Calling any place in Switzerland a "Steuerhölle" always gives me a good chuckle.

 

[john57]

@phyllisgault You haven't paid taxes in Bern, then

 

[phyllisgault]

@john57 I've paid them in various Kantons that would be considered "high tax" in Switzerland. But I've also paid them in Austria & Germany and that always leads to funny conversations with my swiss accountant. I'm always in awe as to what is possible in Switzerland and he's always in awe as to what is possible in Austria/Germany. His favourite response to the former is "Wir sind hier in der Schweiz!" and to the latter is "Das ist ja Raubrittertum!"

Switzerland is an absolute tax fairytale compared to ANY country around it (short of Monaco) and one of the main reasons I'm here.

 

[dichvuthongtaccong]

@phyllisgault Have you considered health insurance? I pay another 12-14% per month for 3 people, one

 

[phyllisgault]

@dichvuthongtaccong I have. In high-tax Kantons you're looking at total expenses of just under 30% including EVERYTHING for a low to mid 6 figures income. In places like Zug or Schwyz its more like 20% even down to 15% if you're moving to the Wollerau/Feusisberg/Freienbach area. Now let's compare it to Austria where you will be paying 50% for every € you earn above 60.000€/a. Your average tax-rate for the aforementioned income would be somewhere around 44-46%. That is only income tax! Include social security payments, etc. and you are basically at 50%.

That the cost of living is higher compared to D/A is more than made up for through higher incomes. Just check the worldwide ranking for "frei verfügbares Haushaltseinkommen" and see where Switzerland is usually ranked. What I tell my friends when they would have the usual argument of "Switzerland might be paying more but it's also a lot more expensive!" is that you are usually looking at at least double the net income for around 40% higher cost of living. If you are working in high-income industries you might even be looking at 3x or more. (I'm making about 2.5x what I made in Germany after taxes.)

Of course everyone has their own experience but from my personal experience of living in various european countries over extended periods of time I feel like nothing even comes close to Switzerland in terms of income/living standards/security.