Best lithium stocks to buy for long term holding?

@kitley The only real benefit to sodium is low cost, it’s not really what I would call “new battery technology”, in the sense that it does not improve weight/energy density. It may be useful in certain niche use cases where lowest cost possible is the primary thing to solve for, but not much else.
 
@natervader They're not going to replace them in 10 years, which is OP's scale. Think about how long it too to get lithium ion batteries to where they are. Flow cell has potential. Gravity batteries take tons of land and water, so they're useful situational.

Lithium isn't oil, but it's not going away lol.
 
@louieneedspeace Sodium ion batteries when perfected (soon) will take on many of the stationary applications which otherwise would go to LFP.

Sodium ion is the most likely cheap successor. Only the lowest performance vehicles will use sodium ion (already starting in China!) but if sodium ion gets as cheap as it seems possible then any future non-vehicle demand will be met and lithium demand capped.
 
@jackman915 Lithium ion batteries aren't even perfected and they were invented in 1980 (so, not soon), and have been utilized commercially for decades. Sodium ion batteries have literally just entered the commercial space.

Maybe they do, maybe they don't. They could crush lithium (very long term which is not OPs question, they will not replace them in 10-15 years, or dramatically reduce lithium demand in this time). But it's a fine bear case to keep in mind.

If molten sodium or sodium ion batteries are to be used at scale, the fire (and now explosion cause sodium) safety issues that we see with lithium ion batteries will be magnified. Their implementation will not be swift.
 
@louieneedspeace
Lithium ion batteries aren't even perfected and they were invented in 1980 (so, not soon), and have been utilized commercially for decades. Sodium ion batteries have literally just entered the commercial space.

Sodium is similar to Lithium in many aspects of battery chemistry and is not starting from zero. Many advances made with Lithium can be used in manufacturing sodium batts too. Some manufacturing equipment for Lithium can be used as is for sodium.

And for low performance EV, or stationary applications weight is not huge factor.

If molten sodium or sodium ion batteries are to be used at scale, the fire (and now explosion cause sodium) safety issues that we see with lithium ion batteries will be magnified.

Sodium batteries are safer compared to Lithium and don't have thermal run away. You could find testing videos of charged batteries punctured right through without causing any reaction for sodiu batteries.
 
@1hottmoma Yeah there's a head start for sodium, I agree. But it's not as simple as the redox reaction is the same as lithium. They behave entirely differently in terms of size, redox potential, mobility, coordination, solvation, all of which need to be considered in batteries. The polymeric separators for lithium are going to be almost entirely different due to these factors. Sodium is waaaaay bigger so the pores have to be bigger to accommodate, which means the counterions can more easily cross, neutralizing the charge gradient and killing the battery. The cathode and anode materials need to be compatabile with all of the above.

Now consider that this has all been developed for lithium (among many many other components ive left out), which really isn't that expensive to mine and produce. Is it worth doing it for sodium? Sure. But lithium is there and it works already. The market isn't going to be pumping into sodium ion battery development to have it now, will have to grow and find its place replacing lithium, just like lithium ion batteries did to their predecessors.

And THEN if we're even doing low density batteries for stationary batteries, flow cell and gravity batteries might end up being even better than all of them.

Thermal runway isn't my concern, it's external fire sources igniting the sodium (car crash, house fire, any fire). Look at videos of folks throwing sodium metal into lakes. Now imagine a battery the size of a building.

Lithium demand will continue to grow, but maybe not indefinitely. It will join the rest of the cyclic commodities.
 
@louieneedspeace Bear or very slightly bull, but not enough to invest. I’m thinking news on new battery tech around something that isn’t lithium. Even vaporware can hurt the price. In addition, there’s better, safer more profitable places to invest your money than 30 year old battery tech.
 
@xcskierboy Depending on your time horizon, I agree and disagree. Bull now for the next decade. Bear to be considered after. New battery tech isn't replacing lithium ion batteries this decade. There isn't even a comparable battery on the market yet, let alone developing into EVs, which are being made right now.

This is a commodity play. They're all cyclical and subject to aggressive supply and demand. New tech news is not a bear case for commodities imo. Consumer demand on decade long projections sure.
 
@louieneedspeace Take a look at ALB, one of the stocks mentioned in this thread. If you bought them at the bottom of Covid, they’re up 40%, but over the same time period index funds have doubled that with considerably less risk.
 
@xcskierboy I mean I don't get your point. If you timed the bottom, you'd be up more with indexes? Well if you timed the top, you'd be up way more with ALB- it exploded.

I don't remember OP asking for the safe play. If that's what they want, then boggle. Lithium prices swung far too aggressively in one direction and I personally think they've swung too far on the way back down and there is good money to be made.

This generic nonspecific investing advice can be given on every thread about every play ever and contributes nothing to bear and bull cases for a thesis. What's the point in even participating in these subreddits if you're on the etf set and forget train.
 
@natervader Battery demand is driven by Electric Vehicles.

Electric vehicles need lighter, high energy density batteries.

Lithium is the lightest alkali metal and won't be substituted for any EV battery.

If batteries ever get to a point where weight agnostic demand (grid storage, home storage, heavy transport, etc) impacts Lithium demand, other non-lithium battery chemistries will matter.
 

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