@eyeofthebeholder I'm not defending Nikola, but to take anything from Daimler with a grain of salt. For years now they get subsidies to develop H2 cars and have little to show for it.
A Deep Dive into Nikola's FCEV Design and Price Model
worshipbass93
New member
@shanmarkel Check out the UK government planning around this issue. There's a few firms around the UK who have hydrogen fuel cell projects for busses other transport solutions. The energy sector has a strong support to cut hydrogen price. It would be interesting to see how the UK success on this.
arabmuslimpower
New member
@acire2014 There's support across the board but the UK government is already massively supporting electric public transport (especially buses) and implementing them. Don't know what that says about hydrogen.
@arabmuslimpower Hydrogen is a Tory wet dream after the nuclear strategy well... safe to say failed with all nuclear station project has been now either stalled or cancelled.
The idea of using excess wind power to do electrolysis is the drive I think, I'm no professional, only read a few articles recently.
What I do know is that almost every time the UK energy mix comes up as a question the hydrogen production is a topic of conversation if there's a Tory MP involved. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/16/scottish-green-hydrogen-scheme-gears-up-to-fuel-ferries-buses-and-trains[guardian link to the last article on this](https://www.theguardian.com/busines...eme-gears-up-to-fuel-ferries-buses-and-trains)
The idea of using excess wind power to do electrolysis is the drive I think, I'm no professional, only read a few articles recently.
What I do know is that almost every time the UK energy mix comes up as a question the hydrogen production is a topic of conversation if there's a Tory MP involved. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/16/scottish-green-hydrogen-scheme-gears-up-to-fuel-ferries-buses-and-trains[guardian link to the last article on this](https://www.theguardian.com/busines...eme-gears-up-to-fuel-ferries-buses-and-trains)
arabmuslimpower
New member
@acire2014 Got you, sounds like you've researched it properly. I've seen contracts and implementation of public transport being electrified (especially in the really big cities) left and right which is what I was going off.
@arabmuslimpower I think it's more to do with the carbon emission targets are basically impossible to reach without the nuclear stations so they need to come up with something. Anyways. Watch the space cause I think even if Nikola ( who the fck names a DC battery driven car after the inventor the AC ?? ) fail, which is not a surprise to anybody, then it's not the end of this particular segment. Unfortunately the UK market is so crap that you can't really invest easily in hydrogen powered vehicle projects cause they are either not public or the warrants are just insane.
grace11133333
New member
darknessomni
New member
resjudicata
New member
@nealf I have one big reason to doubt their hydrogen generation cost estimates:
If they were really doing it 50-80% cheaper than anybody else could, they should just be selling the hydrogen.
Global hydrogen production is about $140 billion USD per year, and if they are really half the price, they should be able to carve out a huge chunk of that market in short notice. They might not be able to compete with those that generate hydrogen as a byproduct, but they could capture almost the entire "on-purpose" hydrogen generation themselves.
There's no need to futz around with building cars and trucks. There's a reason XOM has 4x the market cap of GM.
I don't have the Mech.E. background to verify the rest of what you're saying. My physics undergrad allows me to understand the words you're saying, but not enough to check the numbers myself.
But that's the one thing that really stuck out to me, from a business perspective. If you can produce hydrogen that cheaply, then that's your business right there. Maybe start making trucks after. Use the cheap hydrogen profits to bootstrap your truck business.
If they were really doing it 50-80% cheaper than anybody else could, they should just be selling the hydrogen.
Global hydrogen production is about $140 billion USD per year, and if they are really half the price, they should be able to carve out a huge chunk of that market in short notice. They might not be able to compete with those that generate hydrogen as a byproduct, but they could capture almost the entire "on-purpose" hydrogen generation themselves.
There's no need to futz around with building cars and trucks. There's a reason XOM has 4x the market cap of GM.
I don't have the Mech.E. background to verify the rest of what you're saying. My physics undergrad allows me to understand the words you're saying, but not enough to check the numbers myself.
But that's the one thing that really stuck out to me, from a business perspective. If you can produce hydrogen that cheaply, then that's your business right there. Maybe start making trucks after. Use the cheap hydrogen profits to bootstrap your truck business.
conradrocks
New member
@resjudicata
Exactly, no need to do anything else. They would already have an incredibly successful company. Instead they choose this never ending launch of 3D renderings and mock-ups that never amount to anything real.
The promise of all that cutting edge technology (way ahead of everybody else), but for some reason they are frantically looking for "partners" every time they have to create something.
Exactly, no need to do anything else. They would already have an incredibly successful company. Instead they choose this never ending launch of 3D renderings and mock-ups that never amount to anything real.
The promise of all that cutting edge technology (way ahead of everybody else), but for some reason they are frantically looking for "partners" every time they have to create something.
@resjudicata I'm not sure how it compares to their estimated price, but one issue might be how hydrogen is currently produced. It's way cheaper to make hydrogen from natural gas through steam reformation right now than it is to use electrolysis. In other words, you could have a business that makes electrolysis a lot cheaper than usual while still not being competitive with current industrial methods. Electrolysis using green energy is much better for the environment than steam reformation, so while it's not super practical cost wise it does have some benefit.
Most likely that's not what's going on here and they're just scamming though.
Most likely that's not what's going on here and they're just scamming though.
