30 hours free childcare and top-up fees

[jaelhope]

@duke845 Full time isn't 45 hours per week though, it's 50 hours per week if they are using morning and afternoon wrap-around (8am - 6pm).

As mentioned in other comments, the 30 hours averages out to 24 hours across the whole year.

So the OP is paying for 26 hours per week plus whatever food surcharge is added per day.

We reduced our childrens time at nursery to be 9am - 3pm for exactly this reason, and just managed the hours either side with the kids at home whilst we worked.

 

[duke845]

@jaelhope OP isn't paying for 26 hours per week.

OP is paying for 28 hours per week (it's 22 hours per week when split over the full year) and 22 hours as a top up from what they charge and what they get from the council which isn't allowed.

OP should be paying for 28 hours per week in full + food and sundries where applicable. They should not be paying anything for the 22 hours.

Since invoices are done monthly, it works out at 95 hours per month free (1,140 hours ÷ 12). So OP should have 95 hours deducted each month that they don't pay anything for and that's not happening

 

[noodlesandmeatballs]

@chuckpeterson I paid the same as you and was just as shocked as you but unfortunately the nursery can do this - I called the council at the time to double check as it seemed outrageous. Maybe call your council and check.

To clarify- my child had a full year, full day placement which meant that the contracted hours far exceeded the 30 hours term time offering. If you are not doing the same then some thing is incorrect

 

[daedrik77]

@chuckpeterson I would post in Legal advice and UK parenting subs too.

£70 a day seems very high - could comfortably feed a family with 4 teenagers on that

 

[chuckpeterson]

Thanks for all the input.

Just to clarify, the hours are 10 per day and I’ve accounted for the term time difference in my calculation given the benefit is only over 38 weeks of the year.

I asked for a breakdown and they explained that they just subtract the local authority amount from their normal fees, I.e., £5 off the £10.50 per hour rate for the eligible hours. This doesn’t appear to be permitted as per: https://www.pacey.org.uk/working-in...-hours-funding/information-for-practitioners/

“You are not permitted to charge parents top-up fees (the difference between your private fees and the hourly rate you receive from your local authority) or require a registration fee.

Government funding is intended to cover the cost to deliver 15 or 30 hours a week of free, high quality, flexible childcare. It is not intended to cover the cost of meals, consumables, additional hours or additional services.

This means parents can expect to be charged for meals and snacks, and as well as for other consumables such as nappies, wipes and sun cream. You can also charge for additional activities and services such as outings and trips; classes (e.g. French, yoga, Forest School, etc.); drop-offs and pick-ups (e.g. to and from another setting); and for being ‘on-call’ when a child is at another setting. However, parents must have the choice of whether or not they wish to purchase additional activities and services, and these charges cannot be a condition of taking up a funded place.”

 

[talisra]

@chuckpeterson Your nursery has just been honest about what they are doing rather than doing the same thing but calling it food, nappy etc. surcharge. Probably they have just misunderstood how it works and will either adjust the consumable (as above) or stop accepting the 30 hours (I know of many childminders who don't offer it due to the significant loss of income).

The nursery has calculated what it needs to be profitable in order to pay it's staff, mortgage, food and utilities. Why the government thinks that fixing the amount they pay per hour in a region and expect all the different types and styles of nursery and childminder to accept one price is insane. Doris here runs a garden shed where the kids play with rusty nails vs Doreen who has a climbing wall in the sheltered back garden which the kids can play with in between soft play and a 3 course meal. Both have the same overheads?

Whoever dreamt of this scheme really is incompetent.

 

[chuckpeterson]

@talisra Yes that seems fair.

I think my issue is probably with the government funding model and can understand that the business still has the same over heads they need to cover.

I think I’ll just have to suck it up and am generally otherwise very happy with the childcare they provide.

 

[talisra]

@chuckpeterson I would, in fact I do because our nursery is amazing but they are not following the rules. You could do something about it but just beware what the outcome could be.

 

[jesuslover999]

@chuckpeterson 70 per day for food and nappies is 70x4 days x4.3 weeks per mth which is 1200ish of the 1800. A bit off maybe?

 

[chuckpeterson]

@jesuslover999 No, it’s 70 x 3 (as 30 hours) x 52 / 12 = £910 + 475 (4th day) + 465 (LA funding)

 

[jesuslover999]

@chuckpeterson Right. U r probably right. 70 squid for nappies ( which are 80p for 3 pairs or whatevevr insignificat) and the rest for food?. R they eating truffles every day? Spoiled kids

 

[chuckpeterson]

@jesuslover999 Haha yeah and at 3 years old he hasn’t worn nappies for about a year now too!

 

[resjudicata]

@chuckpeterson We send our children to nursery three days a week, 3/4 day. It's £720 without 30 hours and £220 with.

We have a breakdown of how much it costs to send a child with or without funding (15/30) for 2-5 days for morning, afternoon, 3/4 day, full day, this was provided by the nursery before our children joined, yours should have a fee sheet as well that you can ask for.

 

[wilburshaw]

@chuckpeterson £70 is eye watering, but charging a good chunk on top of the government hours seems pretty normal. Different nurseries work it out in different ways so it could be worth shopping around.

We have not saved as much as we could do at other nurseries. But we like the setting and think it's worth the money.

At our nursery their standard approach is: Nursery is open 7.30-6.30. They take 10 hours each day over two days, and leave the 4hours p/w left over (39 hours spread over the whole year). We pay for 1 hour plus food (£20 which I think is extortionate) two days and anything over two days at normal rate.

I think they have to offer just funded hours if you ask - but that would be 6 hours a day term time only without food etc so doesn't work for most working parents.

You could also ask if they have any flexibility if there's a way you would rather do it. We have a different arrangement with our nursery as we needed 6 hours a week to use elsewhere.

 

[tisiphonesrc]

@chuckpeterson You are getting ripped off big time. I hope you get it sorted!

 

[harvestiantogks]

@chuckpeterson It's the same where we live. The good nurseries subsidise the "30 free hours", so you just pay a reduced rate.
There's still cheap council-run nurseries around if you really want the free hours.

Weirdly the Borough next to us does not allow any nurseries to subsidise in this way.

 

[inhim4ever]

@chuckpeterson Fucking hell how much?! UK nursery costs are wild. You must all be delirious with joy when they finally start school.

And free hours in termtime only?! Yes because every single working adult is a teacher and has 12 weeks off per year… What a shitshow.

For the record, we pay around 230€ per month for five days per week usually 7am until 3/3:30pm. It’s obviously subsidised and that money is our taxes but at least you don’t have to find vast sums of money just to be able to go back to work after having kids.

 

[chuckpeterson]

@inhim4ever 100% counting down the days when they start school!

 

[jeremylovesgod]

@chuckpeterson My sons nursery opening hours were 7am to 6pm. I never used the full hours each day but they were 'available', so each day actually used up 11 'free hours', even if he was there for 8 of the hours and they charged £12 per day for sundries. So for 3 days a week over 51 weeks a year I think our bill dropped by about a third. So it sorta sounds right tbh.

 

[resjudicata]

@chuckpeterson where I am this is common practice.

they have a discounted day/week rate. and then you have to switch to the hourly rate (+ sundries bonus fees) when you take the "free" hours.

I threatened to file I complaint with OFTSED as they are an Outstanding nursery and we had multiple heated exchanges and then they gave me two free days/week off the weekly rate (20 or 50 hours/week free) instead of 22hr/week for 51 weeks/year with the the shift to the 20-30% higher hourly rate.

almost came to blows. first mega-battle with the welfare of our children on the line. also, the way the document/rules we signed were written, it was all above board as the full-day and full-week was a DISCOUNT over the hourly rate.

this is a common practice at every nursery in the city and I couldn't get two full-time spaces anywhere else. essentially, with that system, we're subsidising people only using the free hours. essentially, it's a loophole top-up fee ... ARRRGGGHHHHHH.